Is TOTJO inclusive or Exclusive is this a plus or a minus

MJ Hannigan wrote:

Brenna wrote: We've missed you Hannigan, or rather.... its been uneventful since we saw you last.

Ok, I'll bite. Been too quiet around here anyway.

Last I checked, anyone was allowed to join and participate and do the studies. is that not inclusive?

What was the TOTJO members view on this?

From your POV I understand but why is it that we do not see many TOTJO members outside of totjo within the greater community.

So my curiosity got the better of me and I went to go see what this nonsense was about. (no doubt I will regret it)

There are many TOTJO members who also participate in other communities, so frankly, I have no idea where you get this idea from.

And having seen the conversation that this thread originated from, have you considered that TOTJO members might not feel welcome in other groups? Youre hardly rolling out the welcome mat are you.

TotJO, as far as I'm concerned, is incredibly inclusive. Think being a Jedi is a religious calling? That's fine. Think being a Jedi is a philosophical way of life ala Jedi Realism? That's fine. Think the Force is an energy field? That's fine. Think the Force is a relational holistic interplay between objects in the universe? That's fine . Disagree with some parts of the doctrine? Well generally speaking that's fine too.

But the forum is a place of discussion and discovery, if you think something is the case then you should be prepared to explain why. And why it is THAT case rather than having some other explanation. This lends TotJO probably more to a scientific understanding of the world, with explanations such as "Well this is just the case because I believe it" not seen as particularly rigorous or thought through.

What might make us exclusive? Well TotJO developed almost completely independently of any other Jedi community, most Jedi sites have come about (so it seems to me) as a result of Jedi from certain forums, then deciding to create their own. There are several reasons why this might happen, not least of all because a site might shut down. But just because TotJO developed independently doesn't mean that other Jedi are excluded from joining, just that they might not for the simple fact that we have developed our own, different, ways of doing things.

I've heard it said that TotJO is elitist. This might be because we keep to ourselves and we do our own thing, but humorously enough this is the exact opposite of elitism, because our position is also that other Jedi sites are welcome to keep to themselves and do their own thing. TotJO might be our 'correct' form of Jediism/Jedi Realism, but it has always been our position that other sites are simply their 'correct' form of Jediism/Jedi Realism. An elitist institution would not allow for the latter to be considered true.

I have always made it clear in any of my dealings with the media that TotJO is one organisation among many, further that as a rule we (and most certainly I) have always rejected any sort of 'authority' in Jediism.

totjo is like any other social structure

people know each other and people are comfortable

being new it takes time to be accepted

especially if you come in with your ownideas that were not developed in concordance to the existing group dynamic

"elites" within any group tend to be snobbish

thats just the way people are

many in groups such as this (specifically dedicated to "enlightenment" whatever that means to the individual) are aware of this basic human tendency and so apply a bit of the old self review from time to time

many dont

so what?

the way to get accepted by any group is just to stick around and mingle openly

you step on toes and offend people from time to time but you also earn respect from time to time
eventually the group adapts to you and you adapt to it

its the same process with every group

totjo is not especially inclusive or exclusive for the most part although i see it as a little more exclusive than it realizes itself to be

Brenna wrote:

MJ Hannigan wrote:

Brenna wrote: We've missed you Hannigan, or rather.... its been uneventful since we saw you last.

Ok, I'll bite. Been too quiet around here anyway.

Last I checked, anyone was allowed to join and participate and do the studies. is that not inclusive?

What was the TOTJO members view on this?

From your POV I understand but why is it that we do not see many TOTJO members outside of totjo within the greater community.

So my curiosity got the better of me and I went to go see what this nonsense was about. (no doubt I will regret it)

There are many TOTJO members who also participate in other communities, so frankly, I have no idea where you get this idea from.

And having seen the conversation that this thread originated from, have you considered that TOTJO members might not feel welcome in other groups? Youre hardly rolling out the welcome mat are you.

Is that so? Really which members are you speaking about? Which groups or forums will I find them apart of? I am guessing since i put you in your place last time you are allowing your venum to take control. Its cool and expected. Perhaps this is something you can work on in the future.

I will even offer you a lesson. You seem to take what I say and twist it. Perhaps you should ask questions for clarity on what I say because clearly you failed pretty hard at attempting to understand what i post here as well as in other groups.

MJ Hannigan wrote: ... but why is it that we do not see many TOTJO members outside of totjo within the greater community.

I also joined and tried to be active at at least 3 other 'Force' sites... but they didn't really cut it, connect with me, or serve any function. TOTJO serves a function for me, and IMO has the best approach, but that doesn't mean I didn't try others. I also generally found some people offsite seem to have strange opinions about TOTJO which are divorced from my experiences here.

So... to the OP, I think its completely inclusive, in fact I think ALL Jedi should be members and enjoy this Temple (as well as their own communities too of course!)!!!!!

MJ Hannigan wrote:

Brenna wrote:

MJ Hannigan wrote:

Brenna wrote: We've missed you Hannigan, or rather.... its been uneventful since we saw you last.

Ok, I'll bite. Been too quiet around here anyway.

Last I checked, anyone was allowed to join and participate and do the studies. is that not inclusive?

What was the TOTJO members view on this?

From your POV I understand but why is it that we do not see many TOTJO members outside of totjo within the greater community.

So my curiosity got the better of me and I went to go see what this nonsense was about. (no doubt I will regret it)

There are many TOTJO members who also participate in other communities, so frankly, I have no idea where you get this idea from.

And having seen the conversation that this thread originated from, have you considered that TOTJO members might not feel welcome in other groups? Youre hardly rolling out the welcome mat are you.

Is that so? Really which members are you speaking about? Which groups or forums will I find them apart of? I am guessing since i put you in your place last time you are allowing your venum to take control. Its cool and expected. Perhaps this is something you can work on in the future.

I will even offer you a lesson. You seem to take what I say and twist it. Perhaps you should ask questions for clarity on what I say because clearly you failed pretty hard at attempting to understand what i post here as well as in other groups.

I do not personally keep tabs on all our members, but at least two of the posters in the conversation that this came from are members here, one is even an apprentice. So you have seen them yourself. And Im aware of members that you have met personally at gatherings.

Why is it so important to you that members here are members elsewhere?

Brenna wrote:

MJ Hannigan wrote:

Brenna wrote:

MJ Hannigan wrote:

Brenna wrote: We've missed you Hannigan, or rather.... its been uneventful since we saw you last.

Ok, I'll bite. Been too quiet around here anyway.

Last I checked, anyone was allowed to join and participate and do the studies. is that not inclusive?

What was the TOTJO members view on this?

From your POV I understand but why is it that we do not see many TOTJO members outside of totjo within the greater community.

So my curiosity got the better of me and I went to go see what this nonsense was about. (no doubt I will regret it)

There are many TOTJO members who also participate in other communities, so frankly, I have no idea where you get this idea from.

And having seen the conversation that this thread originated from, have you considered that TOTJO members might not feel welcome in other groups? Youre hardly rolling out the welcome mat are you.

Is that so? Really which members are you speaking about? Which groups or forums will I find them apart of? I am guessing since i put you in your place last time you are allowing your venum to take control. Its cool and expected. Perhaps this is something you can work on in the future.

I will even offer you a lesson. You seem to take what I say and twist it. Perhaps you should ask questions for clarity on what I say because clearly you failed pretty hard at attempting to understand what i post here as well as in other groups.

I do not personally keep tabs on all our members, but at least two of the posters in the conversation that this came from said they were members here, one is even an apprentice. So you have seen them yourself. And Im aware of members that you have met personally at gatherings.

Lurking at facebook groups is not the same as being a active person within the community my dear. You made claims that you can not support hey that is cool and it is your claims to make but perhaps you should be prepared to back claims so others do not see them as blanket statements.

The point I am going with, the thing that started this is that I have seen a number of posts about how totjo may have something to offer members of different facebook groups and so forth which is fine. If you need to get new members advertising at facebook is a great idea. I do that for my shows often, however I am confused as to why people post totjo links instead of taking totjo messages out to gain understanding of totjo. One could argue that by just posting links to new Jedi within the community is member poaching, which according to my old inbox is something that TOTJO discourages here but seems to encourage TOTJO members to do at other groups.

MJ Hannigan wrote: Lurking at facebook groups is not the same as being a active person within the community my dear. You made claims that you can not support hey that is cool and it is your claims to make but perhaps you should be prepared to back claims so others do not see them as blanket statements.

The point I am going with, the thing that started this is that I have seen a number of posts about how totjo may have something to offer members of different facebook groups and so forth which is fine. If you need to get new members advertising at facebook is a great idea. I do that for my shows often, however I am confused as to why people post totjo links instead of taking totjo messages out to gain understanding of totjo. One could argue that by just posting links to new Jedi within the community is member poaching, which according to my old inbox is something that TOTJO discourages here but seems to encourage TOTJO members to do at other groups.

Im sorry, what claims were those?

MJ Hannigan wrote: One could argue that by just posting links to new Jedi within the community is member poaching, which according to my old inbox is something that TOTJO discourages here but seems to encourage TOTJO members to do at other groups.

Examples?