Rape Culture

Jamie Stick wrote: Speaking as one of those so-called, how was it put, oh yeah...

Whyte Horse wrote: post-modern women who came after the advent of feminism

I am really creeped out by this thread, perhaps it is from a fundamental misunderstanding about what rape is and what consent is, perhaps it is because so many men feel entitled to speak on the issue.....

Where do I begin? How about with the OP...

Whyte Horse wrote: I've been seeing articles and posts discussing rape culture. I'm no expert on it so I decided to ask others more about it. Obviously it's a real phenomenon as evidenced by the endless reports of rape, university coverups, church coverups, executive coverups, etc. Some people are saying that men have the power to change this culture.

Well, they could certainly help and it would be nice if they would. The thing is, if you do it, it can't be because you're expecting praise and accolades from women for being such a "decent gentleman". We don't have time to stroke your ego when women are being raped and murdered for being women.

Whyte Horse wrote: I grew up in a household where we didn't hurt girls and you got a severe beating if you hurt one. In school there was a similar credo. It became a double-standard and the girls caught on to it. My childhood was filled with memories of being abused by females because I was male. I witnessed laws get enacted to enforce the double-standard. If you so much as even raised a hand to your abuser you would be charged with assault and given a lengthy prison sentence. If you spoke out about the abuse you were ridiculed for being weak.

There are a few things happenings here that need to be unpacked.

1. Your belief that your upbringing as one who was violently punished for hurting a woman is a universal experience. I'm glad you were taught not to hit women, but that doesn't mean you're a shining ray of light in a dark world; it means you recognize the basic human right to bodily safety that is inherent to both men and women.

2. Your shift from your own experience to the world at large and assuming that your experiences plus fears translate into a wider, more universal truth. You did it right off the bat but then you do it again with your assumption that prison sentences for abusive men is a universal and long-standing truth, but in fact it is a more recent development within the span of human history that men have been prosecuted for beating women (except in cases where that woman was the property of a different man in which case the offending man would have to pay a fine or suffer some other punitive measure).

3. Conflating and equating the experiences of male and female abuse victims in order to minimize female abuse victims. as if to say that it's women's fault that male abuse victims are ignored. Male abuse victims are ignored because men have placed unrealistic expectations of what it means to be a man: impervious, strong, courageous, etc etc etc... To admit that you, as a male, are a victim of abuse means that you're not living up to male archetype and therefore are a failure of a man. This is not women's fault, especially not women who are victims of abuse.

Whyte Horse wrote: Another experience I had the "privilege" of living through was the "us vs them" mentality of post-modern women who came after the advent of feminism. I got to deal with young women who hated men and had been taught all their lives that men are dogs, scum, etc. I've had to listen to conversations by women in public describing men as worthless human beings, sub-humans, etc. I've had uncountable numbers of women use me for money, car rides, free dinners, etc.

Emphasis and underlines are mine.

What I put in bold has nothing to do with feminism and if that's truly all that you know of feminism, then I'm sorry but that's not what feminism is about and here's why:

1. Women are not taught to hate men all their lives because "men suck" but rather women are taught through their experiences of objectification, exclusion, and violence that men are nothing but trouble. If you knew what it was to be afraid to go to the grocery store or even something as simple as the story portrayed in this ad . I mean, have you ever wondered why women would say such things about men? Like, do you honestly believe that all those women just say it to spite you? Are you that naive to believe that women spend their days calculating what to say that will piss men off the most? Life is way too short for that nonsense.

2. The underlined part is peculiar because it almost implies that you would think more fondly of women who had feminist ideals prior to the advent of feminism, is that right? I mean, they'd still be feminists they should wouldn't the fancy title. I'm guessing what you meant was a deriding backhanded comment of distaste and latent contempt for women who want to be treated like human beings within the context of a complex and incredibly unjust world? I'm sorry I wasn't born a couple centuries earlier, but feminism is as relevant today as it was before it had a name.

Whyte Horse wrote: I honestly believe this "rape culture" and the experiences I've had are related. I don't think I'm the only one to have experienced this and it's probably most men who experience this. As for me, instead of raping some woman, I forsake them. I decided not to have kids, not to marry, and not to date women. I can see how someone else might go with rape if their morals are corrupted, as is often the case with people who are abused.

Putting rape culture in scare quotes is a surefire way to convince me that you don't believe it is a thing, but wait didn't you say it was a real thing?

Whyte Horse wrote: Obviously it's a real phenomenon as evidenced by the endless reports of rape, university coverups, church coverups, executive coverups, etc.

It doesn't really sound like you actually believe it is a thing, but rather you're looking for all the excuses to dismiss and discount the experiences of women. Fundamentally, you don't seem to have a grasp on what rape culture is. Rape culture is the social attitudes of a culture regarding the subject of rape that enables it to occur while dismissing the lived experiences of the victims. Fun fact: this includes men who are victims of rape and because of the male archetype they are not taken seriously when they report it to friends, family, and authorities.

Whyte Horse wrote: In the end, I was able to find a woman who grew up removed from this culture and we've been married for 8 years with no problems.

You've had no problems? Congrats on your impossible marriage! My parents have been together for 26 years and yet their marriage hasn't been perfect. In fact, I can't think of one happy married couple that hasn't had problems in their marriage, but maybe you're the first person I'll know who has that super special marriage.

Whyte Horse wrote: Our greatest strength is our mutual respect for one another and we both plan on staying together for the rest of our lives. Sometimes she says things like "A woman must respect her husband" and it enrages the women on my side of the family but we all know she's right.

Why must a woman respect her husband? If it is truly a marriage built on mutual respect, shouldn't that respect be earned through reciprocity? Is respect something that can be had out of compulsion? I suspect it is possible, but not the kind of respect that produces the kind of marriage you say you have.