Rape Culture

Yup lol, know of better places? (preferably of the electro house variety?)

You should still be able to masturbate when circumcised as an infant - perhaps not adult circumcision though? Some compelling health reasons for it but thats another topic!

Rape is a type of assault... I wonder if its the most prevalent assault culture?

Here in in Wisconsin there is a group called "Voices of Men". It's primary function is speaking out and opposing violence a and sexual abuse against women, and against demeaning women in any way for that matter. I am glad that this movement is gaining momentum.

Circumcision, the ultimate act of violence towards an unsuspecting infant...the only form worse is so called "female circumcision"...both forms are genital mutilation...

how is it worse?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrvDhSB7GHk

Speaking as one of those so-called, how was it put, oh yeah...

Whyte Horse wrote: post-modern women who came after the advent of feminism

I am really creeped out by this thread, perhaps it is from a fundamental misunderstanding about what rape is and what consent is, perhaps it is because so many men feel entitled to speak on the issue.....

Where do I begin? How about with the OP...

Whyte Horse wrote: I've been seeing articles and posts discussing rape culture. I'm no expert on it so I decided to ask others more about it. Obviously it's a real phenomenon as evidenced by the endless reports of rape, university coverups, church coverups, executive coverups, etc. Some people are saying that men have the power to change this culture.

Well, they could certainly help and it would be nice if they would. The thing is, if you do it, it can't be because you're expecting praise and accolades from women for being such a "decent gentleman". We don't have time to stroke your ego when women are being raped and murdered for being women.

Whyte Horse wrote: I grew up in a household where we didn't hurt girls and you got a severe beating if you hurt one. In school there was a similar credo. It became a double-standard and the girls caught on to it. My childhood was filled with memories of being abused by females because I was male. I witnessed laws get enacted to enforce the double-standard. If you so much as even raised a hand to your abuser you would be charged with assault and given a lengthy prison sentence. If you spoke out about the abuse you were ridiculed for being weak.

There are a few things happenings here that need to be unpacked.

1. Your belief that your upbringing as one who was violently punished for hurting a woman is a universal experience. I'm glad you were taught not to hit women, but that doesn't mean you're a shining ray of light in a dark world; it means you recognize the basic human right to bodily safety that is inherent to both men and women.

2. Your shift from your own experience to the world at large and assuming that your experiences plus fears translate into a wider, more universal truth. You did it right off the bat but then you do it again with your assumption that prison sentences for abusive men is a universal and long-standing truth, but in fact it is a more recent development within the span of human history that men have been prosecuted for beating women (except in cases where that woman was the property of a different man in which case the offending man would have to pay a fine or suffer some other punitive measure).

3. Conflating and equating the experiences of male and female abuse victims in order to minimize female abuse victims. as if to say that it's women's fault that male abuse victims are ignored. Male abuse victims are ignored because men have placed unrealistic expectations of what it means to be a man: impervious, strong, courageous, etc etc etc... To admit that you, as a male, are a victim of abuse means that you're not living up to male archetype and therefore are a failure of a man. This is not women's fault, especially not women who are victims of abuse.

Whyte Horse wrote: Another experience I had the "privilege" of living through was the "us vs them" mentality of post-modern women who came after the advent of feminism. I got to deal with young women who hated men and had been taught all their lives that men are dogs, scum, etc. I've had to listen to conversations by women in public describing men as worthless human beings, sub-humans, etc. I've had uncountable numbers of women use me for money, car rides, free dinners, etc.

Emphasis and underlines are mine.

What I put in bold has nothing to do with feminism and if that's truly all that you know of feminism, then I'm sorry but that's not what feminism is about and here's why:

1. Women are not taught to hate men all their lives because "men suck" but rather women are taught through their experiences of objectification, exclusion, and violence that men are nothing but trouble. If you knew what it was to be afraid to go to the grocery store or even something as simple as the story portrayed in this ad . I mean, have you ever wondered why women would say such things about men? Like, do you honestly believe that all those women just say it to spite you? Are you that naive to believe that women spend their days calculating what to say that will piss men off the most? Life is way too short for that nonsense.

2. The underlined part is peculiar because it almost implies that you would think more fondly of women who had feminist ideals prior to the advent of feminism, is that right? I mean, they'd still be feminists they should wouldn't the fancy title. I'm guessing what you meant was a deriding backhanded comment of distaste and latent contempt for women who want to be treated like human beings within the context of a complex and incredibly unjust world? I'm sorry I wasn't born a couple centuries earlier, but feminism is as relevant today as it was before it had a name.

Whyte Horse wrote: I honestly believe this "rape culture" and the experiences I've had are related. I don't think I'm the only one to have experienced this and it's probably most men who experience this. As for me, instead of raping some woman, I forsake them. I decided not to have kids, not to marry, and not to date women. I can see how someone else might go with rape if their morals are corrupted, as is often the case with people who are abused.

Putting rape culture in scare quotes is a surefire way to convince me that you don't believe it is a thing, but wait didn't you say it was a real thing?

Whyte Horse wrote: Obviously it's a real phenomenon as evidenced by the endless reports of rape, university coverups, church coverups, executive coverups, etc.

It doesn't really sound like you actually believe it is a thing, but rather you're looking for all the excuses to dismiss and discount the experiences of women. Fundamentally, you don't seem to have a grasp on what rape culture is. Rape culture is the social attitudes of a culture regarding the subject of rape that enables it to occur while dismissing the lived experiences of the victims. Fun fact: this includes men who are victims of rape and because of the male archetype they are not taken seriously when they report it to friends, family, and authorities.

Whyte Horse wrote: In the end, I was able to find a woman who grew up removed from this culture and we've been married for 8 years with no problems.

You've had no problems? Congrats on your impossible marriage! My parents have been together for 26 years and yet their marriage hasn't been perfect. In fact, I can't think of one happy married couple that hasn't had problems in their marriage, but maybe you're the first person I'll know who has that super special marriage.

Whyte Horse wrote: Our greatest strength is our mutual respect for one another and we both plan on staying together for the rest of our lives. Sometimes she says things like "A woman must respect her husband" and it enrages the women on my side of the family but we all know she's right.

Why must a woman respect her husband? If it is truly a marriage built on mutual respect, shouldn't that respect be earned through reciprocity? Is respect something that can be had out of compulsion? I suspect it is possible, but not the kind of respect that produces the kind of marriage you say you have.

I can say that I've seen both sides too often. There are those who perpetrate in one form or another, who exploit perceptions to remain the innocent one, regardless of their gender. I find it maleficent and sickening. People should own up to their actions and stop using excuses or blaming others for something they are ashamed of. Male or female, nothing excuses poor character. Lying to save face, I find, is deplorable. Having the need to lie for one's own safety is bad enough. It happens far too frequently because people are too often ready to be up in arms to defend a person's honor without knowing the facts of the matter.

I recognize that rape culture exists, but it's not entirely owned by the male population, either. It's perpetuated from both genders, only more so from males. Publicly, that is. I know females who say things about males in the same way that males talk about females, but only when males aren't around (which I walked into, one day). I also know few females who do so as openly as males do, too. Objectification isn't a male-only club; females are a part of it, as well. I don't have an issue with females or males expressing themselves in this way so long as it isn't meant to be demeaning or hurtful.

I grew up with similar experiences of man-hating attitudes, but only in school. I lived with my mother for most of my life and she never expressed hatred for me or my brother for our male-ness. Guess I was lucky in that regard. It seemed to me that those expressing hatred or great dislike for ALL males were dealing with their own issues and taking it out on everybody else (especially the males). I can't imagine what it's like being a woman, nor would I pretend that I can. I do know what it's like to be objectified negatively, to be made to feel small for being male, to have my issues trivialized simply because I'm expected to "suck it up". But, one thing I won't do is think that my issues are equal. No two people's issues are equal.


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I think its important to remember that rape culture is not about feminism or about a break down (i hesitate to use the term war) between genders, though its is often cited as an issue within most feminist "agendas".

As the definition states, rape culture is the trivialization of rape, and for the purpose of the discussion (and in general), I think it should include sexual assault. Particularly as Ren pointed out, men who are raped are considered victims of sexual assault because of the definition of rape does not include what they might experience.

My point (after all this waffling) is to address the issue brought up about women "crying wolf". Yes, sadly, it happens (and I will say that while it IS the exception not the rule, I'm not sure this is the right place to get into that) but that in itself IS also rape culture. The trivialization of rape is not limited to pretending its not a problem or thinking its somehow amusing, but also in cheapening it with false accusation or using the threat of it as a form of manipulation.

But no amount of trivialization or false accusation, should lull anyone into thinking that rape and sexual assault is not an issue, and that they have license to put it in the "too hard" basket.

Bottom line. The culture does not take rape or sexual violence as seriously as it should.

Came upon an article . Most of the things expressed are agreeable, some not so much (strength and goodness are two separate ideas) Then, I found a sort of rebuttal to the article:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmKesGV9LmE

And, she also does a video about radical feminism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPok3q932rk

From the expressions in the videos, I agree more with her because her responses are based on logical reasoning and not on emotions. Then again, perhaps one can see it as trivializing rape or assault in light of the problems for women, worldwide. I don't know; Again, as I've stated before, I don't pretend to know the life of being a woman. Though, based on certain religious traditions/philosophies, through reincarnation, I may have been a woman in a past lifetime. :blink: :dry:

There are still issues that need to be worked through that have yet to be realized. But, then, there are also human rights issues that first-world society has solved for itself, for the most part, that haven't been dealt with in other parts of the world. This is why I'm a humanist. We are human, after all. But, we wouldn't need to fight for human rights if we didn't have civilization or a culture of division. There are things that are conditions of being either gender. The conditions of being a woman aren't present in the conditions of being a man, and vice versa. By conditions, I mean the things that one inevitably has to deal with being the gender they were born as. There's no denying this to be true, but if one does deny this truth, are they not fooling themselves into thinking that they aren't conditioned?

I welcome criticism for my words as I'm still learning and working through my own conditioning, so I see it as helpful. Even better would be correction to anything I said that may have been steeped in assumption.

Am I the only one who finds it a little more than ironic that a thread about rape culture which has already been defined multiple times as a social attitude which trivializes and dismisses the experiences of rape victims has been turned into a thread about false rape accusations? :whistle: