Hey! Let's Open The Vaccination Can Of Worms!

RyuJin wrote: nothing comes without risk....not even things that are more beneficial than harmful....hell waking up and getting out of bed comes with risks....choosing to stay in bed comes with risks...everything comes with risks.....

if a vaccine helps 3 million people while only harming 100 thousand than it is still a good thing....if a vaccine helps less than say 75% of the people it's given to then it needs to be reevaluated...

We often frame issues into false dichotomies.

Imagine being against spraying vegetables with potent neurotoxic pesticides, and then being told that you "hate vegetables" as a result.

Obviously you are pro-vegetable, and anti-pesticide, but if that isn't an option then you get labeled as anti-vegetable instead.

Imagine being told you want people to starve to death because you hate vegetables, when actually all you ever said is hey maybe we shouldn't spray things we eat with potent neurotoxic substances.

That is exactly the same sort of thing going on here.

I am pro vaccine, without question.

I am however against adding thimerosal, an extremely potent mercury based neurotoxin to vaccines.

We know that ethyl and methyl mercury compounds are some of the most potent neurotoxins known to mankind.

We know mercury exposure causes autism like symptoms in humans, even at very low doses.

It is absolute insanity to inject our selves with some of the most potent mercury based neurotoxins we know of, if we have the option not to do so.

We do have the option not to.

They can produce vaccines without using thimerosal as a preservative.

Thimerosal should be completely banned in 100% of all vaccines or any other food or drug.

Im no expert, although I do know what LD50's are, as I am trained in chemical use...

And, without some scientific data on your part, from a source we agree on as valid, your opinion is as valid as this blog...

And as I do understand chemical 'Lethal Doses', and I did do a quick bit of research before posting, I find your blanket statements ridiculous...

Thiomersal has a LD50 of 75 mg/kg , and Aspirin has an LD50 of 200 mg/kg

Meaning thiomersal is 2.6666- times more lethal than aspirin.. Two and half times... Not 10, 100, 1000, times, two and a half times... At the LD50, which means half of the subjects didnt die, only got sick...

http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/scary-flu-vaccine-ingredients/

Thiomersal and vaccines

So let’s move on to the other highlighted flu vaccine ingredients, and that’s the old canard, dangerous thiomersal (or thimerosal in the USA–my education is 100% US based, but for some reason I’ve used the non-USA spelling for 30 years). Let’s make some points clear right now. This is NOT mercury in its elemental form, which you might remember from old-style medical thermometers. So there isn’t a pool of mercury in the vaccine vial. Moreover, thiomersal is ONLY used, at least in vaccines, in multi-use vials, these days, only the flu vaccine.

Thiomersal is a toxic compound, there is no denying that. But let’s get back to math. The toxicity of compounds is measured through an analysis called the dose-response relationship, which describes the change in effect on an organism caused by differing doses of a compound after a certain exposure time. Table salt is tasty and safe in small amounts, but could kill you if taken in huge amounts. The dose-response relationship provides a graph that mathematically establishes what amounts of a compound causes what effects. This would seem to be a logical, and easily understood concept, but for many individuals, a bad substance is always bad.

First of all, the half-life of thiomersal in blood is around 2.2 days. That might seem long, but it means half is gone in a couple of days, cleared out by the kidneys. It does not accumulate.

But the math is even more telling. This flu vaccine, given once a year, has a maximum dose of 25 micrograms of mercury (but not elemental mercury). According to an NIH database, the LD50, that is, the approximate dose at which 50% of organisms will die (in this case a mouse), is 98 mg/kg body weight, if delivered subcutaneously, generally how vaccines are delivered.

A 20 kg child would get 25 micrograms of non-elemental mercury (this is important, thimerosal does not equal mercury) in one injection once a year. The theoretical LD50 dose for that same child would be around 2000 mg of thiomersal, or about 80,000 times higher than the amount of thiomersal in one vaccine dose–if vaccines used in children actually had thiomersal, which it doesn’t.

So, you would have to inject your child 80,000 times a day, every day, to make it potentially toxic. And no, dose-response relationships are not linear. That doesn’t mean that there’s some tiny risk of death from even a small dose of thiomersal–there is actually NO risk. And again, since there’s no thiomersal in pediatric vaccines this argument is ridiculous.

But more than all that, we have solid scientific data that show us that thiomersal is totally unrelated to autism, and is completely safe in vaccines. This illogical removal of thiomersal from vaccines makes it nearly impossible to have multi-use vials, so every vaccine has to be in a single-use prefilled syringe, which has rapidly driven up the costs of vaccines. Wait. That’s more evidence that antivaccination lunatics are in the pockets of Big Pharma. They pushed to get rid of thiomersal to make more profits for Big Pharma. That was an awesome move on their part.

While it would take me some time to verify that child vaccines does not contain thiomersal, based on my quick research, and the validity of everything else he states, I would say he opinion is pretty valid... (CDC website - http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/faqs.html ) Some more good stuff there... :)

Now, dont get me wrong as well, I am against using poison as much as possible, but, sometimes, you gotta fight fire with fire, and that is why anti-venom is made with venom...

So, based on my quick research:

thimerosal, an extremely potent mercury based neurotoxin to vaccines.

It is not extremely potent...

absolute insanity to inject our selves with some of the most potent mercury based neurotoxins

It is not extremely potent... It is not the elemental mercury that you (must?) think it is...

They can produce vaccines without using thimerosal as a preservative

Yep, per the CDC website, you only have to ask for your vaccine to not have it...

Thimerosal should be completely banned in 100% of all vaccines or any other food or drug.

Banned? Not until they have a better substance for the need...

But, the choice to have it or not, sure, I'll give you that...

Jestor wrote:
And, without some scientific data on your part

This honestly and sincerely offends me.

It's not like the past 30 pages have been nothing but that.

Post after post after post.

You just ignore it.

It is like trying to play chess with a pigeon.

Now we have a representative testifying before the house that leaders at the CDC forced scientist performing a vaccine safety study to alter their results to avoid the political backlash, and you don't even pay attention.

Red_Eye_Jedi wrote:

Jestor wrote:
And, without some scientific data on your part

This honestly and sincerely offends me.

It's not like the past 30 pages have been nothing but that.

Post after post after post.

You just ignore it.

It is like trying to play chess with a pigeon.

Are you the pigeon?

lol...

I am not wading through pages of your rhetoric, lol...

In ten minutes of research on my part, I feel that your last post, and the only one I replied to, has no legs to stand on, and this is why I avoid these conversations for the most part, lol...

I understand you are pro-vaccine, but, just from the one post, it sounds like you needed to do ten more minutes of research, if you are smarter than this pigeon, as that all the time I 'pecked' at the keyboard... lol...

I 'ignore' your 'proof', like you 'ignore' anyone's 'proof', who has an opposing stance to your view...

I dont ignore it, I just find it unconvincing...

Now we have a representative testifying before the house that leaders at the CDC forced scientist performing a vaccine safety study to alter their results to avoid the political backlash, and you don't even pay attention.

I hate when you edit stuff after I am responding, you do it so often, lol...

Yes, and we will have to see the results of the testimony, wont we? See the evidence for ourselves...

Just because someone is accused of something, doesnt make it so...

For once in your life Jestor, shut up.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4546421/rep-bill-posey-calling-investigation-cdcs-mmr-reasearch-fraud

Go here, and watch representative Bill Posey testify before the house.

Jestor wrote: Just because someone is accused of something, doesnt make it so...[/color]

You are not paying attention.

I will repeat.

Shut up, and go listen to him speak.

Enough is enough.

This is open and shut.

The higher ups at the CDC forced the scientists performing a safety study to destroy evidence.

Seriously, that happened.

One of the scientists saved all the documents, and blew the whistle, and you can watch Rep Bill Posey for yourself speaking before the house about it.

Red_Eye_Jedi wrote: This is open and shut.

Uh

tzb wrote:

Red_Eye_Jedi wrote: This is open and shut.

Uh

To bring you up to speed since you also are not paying attention.

"The remaining four co-authors all met and brought a big garbage can into the meeting room and reviewed and went through all the hard copy documents that we had thought we should discard and put them in a huge garbage can. However, because I assumed it was illegal and would violate both FOIA and DOJ requests, I kept hard copies of all documents in my office and I retained all associated computer files. I believe we intentionally withheld controversial findings from the final draft of the Pediatrics paper."