What would help the Temple Be A Better Place? Suggestions please...

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22 Jun 2020 14:28 #352945 by Rosalyn J
That's interesting.

I'd be interested to know your reasoning

Pax Per Ministerium
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22 Jun 2020 23:08 #352952 by Carlos.Martinez3

Bradly wrote: In all honesty and in no disrespect I believe that in a temple or church like setting that you shouldn't have leaders that believe in other religions. Such as catholic, mormon, or so on. I believe that only the truly devoted to the force should be of any status here.



Here’s a devil advocate and even real life here -

I am a Jedi minister. (Pastor)
My practices and daily and weekly meetings envolve a lot of INTRA- faith practices. I don’t pray, yet I can encourage other to. Is knowing of faiths and practices the same as knowing other faiths? Truthfully I only claim to be a Jedi, but that doesn’t say a person of Ambrahamic faith can’t hold office or even serve - does it? A Mormon? A Tribesman - some one different than us? Should it ? Granted, we as Modern day Jedi are different in our faith is a bit on the inclusive as much as the individual can balance or choose.
I am interested to know your thoughts Bradly.
Force continue to be with ya

Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova

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23 Jun 2020 10:25 #352963 by Gisteron

Bradly wrote: In all honesty and in no disrespect I believe that in a temple or church like setting that you shouldn't have leaders that believe in other religions. Such as catholic, mormon, or so on. I believe that only the truly devoted to the force should be of any status here.

So what do you mean by "status", then? If all it stands for is the purity of the holder's faith, then what makes it desirable or admirable? Why would anyone look up to someone who has "status" or want to have any themselves? And if "status" is a measure of spiritual or philosophical maturity, then what would you propose to restrict access to it for those with broader religious sensibilities? If "status" reflects how the community at large respects or values a user's input, what way do you see to control its accumulation without commanding how individual users feel about someone's contributions?

You did of course say that you are talking about positions of authority and leadership. The question, I find, applies here all the same, though. If leadership is a matter of respect among the general congregation, how would one enforce that it be restricted to those who are ideologically pure? If it is a matter of spiritual maturity, why would only the strongly devoted show signs of that? And if leadership should be granted based directly on purity of faith, then what makes it interesting or important to follow that leader?

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned

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23 Jun 2020 13:58 - 23 Jun 2020 14:00 #352965 by
All questions I haven't prepared for. Honestly i will get back tonthat.. but yes those who lack devotion of the force should not be teaching what its like to believe in the force. And or worship the force. When they in fact dont. They can teach the meaning and what they believe the force is. But that is only opinion. Anyone can be apart of the force and say yes I belive.in the force.. but the truth is devotion and belief go hand in hand. I'm not... as well versed in literature as most. So I'm not the best to explain. Nor am I one to lead.. give me time and I shall have answeres. Last time
It took me 2 years just to answer a question that in depth. Patience my brothers and sisters.. and though I say these things. I still love and care and trust all of you. And yes I will listen to all ideas and beliefs in the force..

I'm sorry I will be more in depth later.

May the force guide you.
Last edit: 23 Jun 2020 14:00 by .

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23 Jun 2020 14:42 #352966 by Rosalyn J
If we look here:

https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/ordermembership

These are the criteria. Admittedly, we take potential members at their word when they meet them.

A belief in the Force is a criteria

How does one worship the Force?

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23 Jun 2020 14:48 - 23 Jun 2020 14:49 #352967 by Proteus
(Before anyone else responds to Bradly, please take extra time to think carefully about your words and what you want to come from them)

It's okay Bradly. Maybe you're not familiar here with how Jediism (at least the flavor of TOTJO's Jediism) works. Jediism does not include worship of the Force or of anything. It is literally based around inclusive and syncratic philosophy and it is held up as such. This means that it is meant to compliment any other beliefs one holds outside of Jediism OR to be used as a standalone belief.

Of course, if you yourself wish to approach Jediism as you describe, you have the right to do that for yourself. However, Jediism around these parts, does not encourage any idea of casting one's own personal rules of their faith unto everyone/anyone else.

With that said, thank you for sharing your views here with us! :)

“For it is easy to criticize and break down the spirit of others, but to know yourself takes a lifetime.”
― Bruce Lee

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TM: Alexandre Orion | Apprentice: Loudzoo (Knight)

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Last edit: 23 Jun 2020 14:49 by Proteus.
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23 Jun 2020 14:57 #352968 by Gisteron

Bradly wrote: All questions I haven't prepared for.

Roz's query was rather open-ended. All she is asking is what thoughts if any led you to believe/feel as you do. Sounds straightforward enough to me, no need to write an entire thesis paper about it.


[Those who lack devotion of the force] can teach the meaning and what they believe the force is. But that is only opinion.

So is the teaching of fully committed devotees. The Code, in my opinion, makes no encouragement to devote oneself to the Force, let alone to worship it. Sure, maybe someone who doesn't worship it is not quite the right person to teach worshipping it but... Would that actually leave out an otherwise vital Jediist teaching?


... devotion and belief go hand in hand.

Do they?


give me time and I shall have answeres. Last time it took me 2 years just to answer a question that in depth. Patience my brothers and sisters.

... I will be more in depth later.

Oh, alright. Take your time. Maybe some of us will remember what we went on about in however many months it takes this time. :D

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned

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03 Oct 2020 06:23 - 03 Oct 2020 09:58 #355004 by OB1Shinobi
The Temple would be better If we stopped catering to babies. Threads get locked and people get banned because some of the people here feel that they have to protect the children who dont know how to choose their own levels of participation. Do you not know how to see people being mean to one another without feeling that you have to choose a battle position of your own? Do you not know how to disagree with somebody without it turning into a war? Do you not know how to say to yourself “this is not good for me and I need tl just walk away for a minute”?

Well fck, if you want to call yourself a Jedi then maybe you should learn how to do these things. Maybe it is more useful to let some of this play out and allow people the opportunity to learn from it than to just shut it down in order to protect us all from our own selves and our own feelings? And If a conversation happens to branch off into a new direction, maybe thats OK, too? The only IRL conversations that I have had which have stayed “on topic” were work conversations, where there were very specific goals and parameters and we had to stay within them in order to achieve what we had to achieve - natural discussions tend to evolve and grow and move off into new and unexpected territory. Thats just the nature of conversation. And hey, maybe it takes years YEARS for people to grow up and learn how to be cool - MAYBE thats OK, too. Maybe we should be allowed to be flawed.

I really dislike the new layout of the Temple: this “Outer Rim” and etc - I respect the intent behind it but it makes everything much MUCH more difficult to navigate, at least for me on my device. Its really a pain in the ass tbh.The only benefit that I ever saw to it was the possibility that MAYBE we could have a space that WASNT so goddam safe. A space where we could just go ahead and be real with each other. The explanation that I seem to remember was that there is now a SAFE SPACE in the Temple and there is also the “Outer Rim”. My understanding was obviously incorrect. Even the “Outer Rim” is still all “safe space”. We’re still heavily moderated and babied. I dont really think that it is good for people who arent babies to be babied. Babies should be babied. The rest of us need to grow tf up.

Jedi Masters - lol. Sure. Have to silence and censor people because you cannot communicate well enough to navigate either them nor even the rest of us through silly arguments on the internet - but you're a Jedi Master.
LOL.
OK.

People are complicated.
Last edit: 03 Oct 2020 09:58 by OB1Shinobi.
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04 Oct 2020 04:59 #355030 by
Dude. You and the others were having a flame war. Adults are held responsible for their actions in this society. Sometimes that means a thread gets locked. If you did something similar in the real world, it could be seen as disturbing the peace and you end up with community service. If you can really learn how to be cool, and understand that it's ok to be flawed, maybe you don't have to make a big stink about it. Locked threads happen. Move on.

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04 Oct 2020 08:38 #355036 by Gisteron
Dude. I was not having a flame war. Most weren't. One person was provoking (as has been their habit ever since they joined and after their new and enlightened return), both before the warnings and entirely unchanged by any of them afterwards. One briefly lost their temper before. Both OB and I were staying out of the alleged flame war afterwards, too. OB didn't even make a post, and I made two trying to get things back on track before also deciding to stay out of the discussion that was being derailed in the same manner once more.

Mommy Temple was supposed to teach us a lesson about adulthood, was it? Supposed by whom? And what lesson was that, then, anyway?

And what lesson for that matter are you trying to offer, exactly? Adults aren't spanked by daddy society for unruliness of each other, are they? Adults are maybe held responsible for their own children and children in their class, sometimes, but not for entirely strange ones, either, or are they? And adults are also given a fair trial where they get to express and defend their view of the situation, are they not? Yet here we are, promised a place where we can take off our masks, then punished for the grotesque grimaces others reveal in so doing, and the way you see things it's not even fair to voice a healthy dissatisfaction with that?

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned

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