Discussion: TotJO Culture Problems

Arisaig wrote: Fun fact, it was never believed to be flat.

Never? by not even one person ever? I doubt that, also there's this guy:
http://www.newsweek.com/earth-flat-rocket-launch-mad-mike-hughes-719367

Tellahane wrote:

Arisaig wrote: Fun fact, it was never believed to be flat.

Never? by not even one person ever? I doubt that, also there's this guy:
http://www.newsweek.com/earth-flat-rocket-launch-mad-mike-hughes-719367

Human beings seem to have taken a step back of late intellectually. I did state that is was historically speaking. Today... well...

Quick question and to help summarize everything for future discussion, within this thread, what has been agreed upon and what is still in discussion?

Nakis wrote: Quick question and to help summarize everything for future discussion, within this thread, what has been agreed upon and what is still in discussion?

Lol we did diverge a bit.

Back on Track. TotJO culture and all that.

The idea was more to get a guideline on what has been agreed upon that can be worked on, and what further more we can discuss to come to a consensus so we can begin improving on that It also helps those new to the conversation catch up. :laugh:

Nakis wrote: Quick question and to help summarize everything for future discussion, within this thread, what has been agreed upon and what is still in discussion?

Here's what I know.

Our first goal is to identify the "culture problems" referred to in the title of this thread. It is still not entirely clear what that exactly means, and how bad those "problems" are. What we have seen a lot of in this thread is that people feel like there is a lack of compassion and common decency at times here, and it can be discouraging. We are certainly taking that seriously, and here is how we are addressing it.

We are working on a document in Council that will outline expected behavior of anyone entering and participating in this Temple. It will be basic guidelines for proper etiquette in the forums, chat, and the wall. It will also introduce the purposes of this Temple, those mainly being training, learning, self-improvement, communal support, and friendship. We already have rules for the website, but this document is meant more to be agreed upon standards for acceptable behavior beyond the hard and fast regulations. The goal of this document is to give us something to refer people to when the peaceful environment here is disrupted.

Included in this document will be more detailed descriptions of the duties of Moderators and Security Officers and how we will be enforcing the spirit and letter of this document. It will be available for all to see and offered as part of the introduction to the Initiate's Program.

There is also a survey being created that is meant to ask questions of the membership to help us discover specific areas where we can improve as departments, as a Council, and as a Temple. We want honest reaction from the membership as a whole so we can determine what the bigger issues truly are, and what may just be the gripes of a few individuals. That way we can focus our efforts on the issues that impact the greatest number of members first.

There will be more to come, but this is the start. I want to be clear that the Council is working, but we are moving slowly and deliberately in order to give the proper consideration to anything we decide on. We want to get this right, and we want it done with as much input from the membership as we can get. It will require patience, but know that we in "management" want to see positive action happen as much as everyone else.

Regardless, let's focus on building up those that would replace us and will do a better job than we have instead of worrying about who holds a title they aren't doing justice to.

- Senan

Because accountability isn't already a number one issue here, because sweeping the problem under the rug (which is exactly what your suggesting) has worked so well in the past?

Edit - How can WE place expectations on future members to do better than ourselves when WE don't expect those who are here now to do as well as they should?

I'm genuinely not trying to be abrasive Senan, I am, but that's hypocrisy straight out and has been a huge problem in this Temple for years...

Zenchi wrote:

Regardless, let's focus on building up those that would replace us and will do a better job than we have instead of worrying about who holds a title they aren't doing justice to.

- Senan

Because accountability isn't already a number one issue here, because sweeping the problem under the rug (which is exactly what your suggesting) has worked so well in the past?

How can you place expectations on future members to do better than ourselves when we don't expect those who are here now to do as well as they should?

That's hypocrisy straight out and has been a huge problem in this Temple for years...

I think its a quote straight from the Book of War. "If the officers are weak and the soldiers strong, there will be insubordination." (or something along those lines)

Senan wrote: There will be more to come, but this is the start. I want to be clear that the Council is working, but we are moving slowly and deliberately in order to give the proper consideration to anything we decide on. We want to get this right, and we want it done with as much input from the membership as we can get. It will require patience, but know that we in "management" want to see positive action happen as much as everyone else.

The problem with this paragraph is that we've heard it before and nothing has ever happened, Master Senan. I really hope that this time it will be different and that it will be the first step to fixing the problems that this place has had before and currently. Also, it seems like sometimes when members try to throw in their input, they get cast aside for someone else's (usually someone with more time here/higher title). If we are going to do this, we need to be fair and transparent. I understand it takes time, all I ask is that maybe you guy throw us a bone in the future saying "This is what we are working on, and this is how we are planning to fix it/implement it".

just my two cents, respectfully

Regardless, let's focus on building up those that would replace us and will do a better job than we have instead of worrying about who holds a title they aren't doing justice to.

When I read this, I see a single point to focus on for a larger multi-faceted based solution. I don't see him wanting to sweep administrative problems under the rug, but instead identifying one facet of the problem to focus on that is directly in his control. Should statements are easy to say. We should change for the better. We should do this or we should do that. For me, the root of the problems are solved based on the positive actions that are taken.

Senan isn't saying ignore the rest of the problems and just make the students better for the chance of hope. By promoting the individual, we are simply adding to the total aggregated worth of the Temple. In my line of work, building people up and empowering them rarely ever ends up hurting them in the long run (unless they are diagnosed with a specific personality disorder). Pointing the finger out helps to identify the problems that we see, but its great to point the finger inward and say, "Given this immediate situation, what steps can I do to make the issue better?"