Jediism and family reaction

You do like to be controversial, don't you Maynoth?

When we met, you, uh, poo-pooed the idea of any calling themselves Jedi because we didn't push the whole "force power/neigong" training...

Now, I have seen you claim twice, that Jedi have existed For 2500 years...

In one example, we were too broad in our definition of a Jedi, which others in the community agree with,

In the second, you are too broad, knowing "Jedi" couldn't have existed, firstly because the word and idea didn't exist, and secondly, if you look at the fiction, and take what a Jedi is, as defined by the fiction (your first point), we are "pre-jedi", lol...

As was stated in "The Secret" thread, when you envision something, it becomes a goal, whether you realize it or not.... And

As we (the Jedi community) evolves, who can say?

MAybe you are a visionary... Maybe you are a kook... But, by societies standards, we all are, lol....

Jestor wrote: You do like to be controversial, don't you Maynoth?

When we met, you, uh, poo-pooed the idea of any calling themselves Jedi because we didn't push the whole "force power/neigong" training...

Now, I have seen you claim twice, that Jedi have existed For 2500 years...

In one example, we were too broad in our definition of a Jedi, which others in the community agree with,

In the second, you are too broad, knowing "Jedi" couldn't have existed, firstly because the word and idea didn't exist, and secondly, if you look at the fiction, and take what a Jedi is, as defined by the fiction (your first point), we are "pre-jedi", lol...

As was stated in "The Secret" thread, when you envision something, it becomes a goal, whether you realize it or not.... And

As we (the Jedi community) evolves, who can say?

MAybe you are a visionary... Maybe you are a kook... But, by societies standards, we all are, lol....

All I know is that there are sects of hermit monks that have been in existence for at least 2500 years, and perhaps much longer than that.

Some of the most advanced among them have developed to a degree to pass off as a fictional Jedi (minus the lightsabers) in star wars without the need for special effects.

I am not sure what that would be called, but Jedi seems a pretty good fit.

These guys were Jedi, before Lucas's father was even born.

Jedi is a new name, on an old concept, and we pretend it never existed prior to creation of the fiction that is star wars.

Please know that I'm not disputing anyone ; it is just a general comment from my dusty library corner (could someone send in the cleaning staff ?) ...

The word "Jedi" was coined from " jidaigeki" (時代劇), meaning 'historical drama', and this word didn't exist 2500 years ago either. In fact, most words in most languages in their modern forms and usages did not exist then. Given the spiritual foundations of, among many others, Japanese tradition in the Shôgunate period, and also given that they were - as are we per moment - spread out all over the spectrum from very secular to very spiritual. Those traditions came out of Zen Buddhism - which is Buddhism influenced by Taoism - and Shintoism, which can lead us back into the -2500 years range.

Another angle under which we could think about our nomenclature is what morality/ethics, practices, philosophies &c do we refer to by employing the term "Jedi" ? Aren't we in some very great ways influenced by the way in which Lucas brought these ancient values into modern mythology (the zeitgeist, as it were) as much as he was by Campbell's "Hero with a Thousand Faces" or various, if not all, works by Alan Watts ? Had we chosen to call ourselves by a word off of any of these pages, would we be having the same discussion ? Would Br. John have been interviewed by the Huffington Post had we the Temple of the Order of Following One's Bliss (for example) ? Wouldn't all of our families (I wish I had one) be supportive of our beliefs or reject them anyway should these be, even if only different from theirs in name only ?

Remember, people are instinctively very tribal. We are also very addicted to our symbols, language being the first and foremost meaning-bearing signs we possess. Were we to refer to ourselves as some new denomination of any of the pre-existing religions which our confession comprises, we would most likely encounter the same sort of condescension.

So, visionary or vagabond, shepherd or sheep, it doesn't matter so very much --

May the Force be with you, whatever your arguments ...

Oh, I understand what you mean bud...

But I think you phrased it in a way to bring out the most, um, discussion(?)

lol... That's all....

Alexandre Orion wrote: P..... this word didn't exist 2500 years ago either. In fact, most words in most languages in their modern forms and usages did not exist then.

A rose by any other name...

Words are just words, if I say that we've known about gunpowder since the 9th century, but it was called something else then, that doesn't mean it started existing only when named gun powder.

maynoth wrote:

Alexandre Orion wrote: P..... this word didn't exist 2500 years ago either. In fact, most words in most languages in their modern forms and usages did not exist then.

A rose by any other name...

Words are just words, if I say that we've known about gunpowder since the 9th century, but it was called something else then, that doesn't mean it started existing only when named gun powder.

True, but as we took their thoughts and summations, and added to them in our evolution, they might be considered pre-pre-pre-Jedi...

Lol...

Jestor wrote:
True, but as we took their thoughts and summations, and added to them in our evolution, they might be considered pre-pre-pre-Jedi...

Lol...

Their beliefs weren't as relevant as their training methods and regimens, that's what got them to the level of advancement they achieved during their lives.

Beliefs are cool, but at the end of the day what you believe has little bearing on what you are able to do.

Just like being a Roman Catholic had little bearing on Arnold Schwarzenegger's strength and physique.

If you were to take master yoda, and try to find a real world equivalent these hermit monks are the closest real world facsimile that I am aware of.

... or 'post-' whatever they called themselves.

Do we need to be called ? Really ?

If I'm evil or kind to you, does it matter if I'm doing it is the name of some named belief ? Does that change it, or what I'm doing ?

They probably all had problems with their families too.

:huh:

I feel no need to approach anyone who doesn't explicitly ask, about my path (I said path - not religion, as "path" is more accurate to me).

Beliefs are cool, but at the end of the day what you believe has little bearing on what you are able to do.

As much as I am non-religious, that above has to be one of the most incorrect statements I've seen on this site in an long time. Everything you do and say is driven by what you currently believe. As Br. John read from another quote on the HuffPost Live Interview, how can you separate your beliefs or faith from your daily life and all that which you are and do?

Proteus wrote:

maynoth wrote: Beliefs are cool, but at the end of the day what you believe has little bearing on what you are able to do.

As much as I am non-religious, that above has to be one of the most incorrect statements I've seen on this site in an long time. Everything you do and say is driven by what you currently believe. As Br. John read from another quote on the HuffPost Live Interview, how can you separate your beliefs or faith from your daily life and all that which you are and do?

Arnold Schwarzenegger is Roman Catholic, but if he were Jewish, Buddhist, or Hindu, or Muslim, or Taoist, or Atheist, or Agnostic, do you think he would have had some sort of advantage or disadvantage in regards to his strength and physique?

Do you think him getting into Nietzsche or Plato, or Aristotle would have any bearing on the size of his biceps?

Training, diet, dedication, perhaps some steroids are what got him to where he is/was, not his religious or philosophical beliefs.

The masters I am talking about are the same, anyone of any religion of philosophical persuasion can accomplish the same results with diligent training with the correct methods and meditation.