Question...

lol@Desolous

The text version of the Joseph Campbell series is The Power of Myth. Sometimes having a book you can hold works best. It's usually available (used) for under $5 including shipping at http://www.amazon.com/Power-Myth-Joseph-Campbell/dp/0385418868 .

Any suggestions for alternate materials are welcome.

Let's just replace the IP with every book Nietzsche wrote. Would serve the current IP's purpose and be more interesting.

No, cause Nietzsche is boriing and hard to read... lol...

I've tried, don't wanna again!

There are tons of avenues to get there, but in the interviews, Campbell discusses Jedi, and Lucas discusses Campbell...

Don't find a more obscure way of teaching this, find a more current...

And, this is my, personal, thinking.....

Br. John wrote: Any suggestions for alternate materials are welcome.

It would depend on the overall intent behind the lessons. If you're attempting to rip people out of their "comfort zones" and get them to see the world/life from a different perspective then I agree with Ren, Nietzsche is your man. However, if you're attempting to simply offer alternate points of view, and confer a general understanding of other religions and philosophies in general, I think you can't go wrong with Alan Watts. There are others more suited to other specific intentions.

For the record, though, I'm not saying that Campbell should be removed. I know that what he says is worth knowing. My only suggestion is, can we supplement that with someone who's maybe a little easier to digest. I have no difficulty understanding what he's saying, my challenge comes in trying to stay awake long enough for him to finish saying it. I will grant, however, that the second lesson was more interesting than the first, and that the third will likely be better than the second. I just wish there were options...you know? The choice of "either this bit from Campbell, or this bit from <whomever>". That would make me (and if I'm reading correctly here, several others), immensely happier.

Again, just an idea, not an edict.

I do hope you were just jesting Ren... Nietzsche has some pretty good ideas, but I would hardly say that he encompasses much of the Jedi path many of us follow.

Example: That, which does not kill us, makes us stronger… Nietzsche.

The more I think about “That which does not kill us,” the more I am certain the phrase requires an asterisk, leading all gullible, silver-lining-loving humans (myself included) to the important fine print:

* The effectiveness of this treatment depends entirely on the foundational strength of the person going into the difficult circumstance.

* “Stronger” does not always equal "better” or “happier.” One’s assessment of the outcome is entirely subjective.

* Repeated hardships, especially in quick succession, may result in an outcome opposite to the one intended.

* It is not always possible to determine what might, in fact, kill you until it has, in fact, killed you.

As far as I am concerned… That which does not kill me, probably hurts!

Hahahhahahahahha :woohoo:

Yeah, Nietzsche is (was) definitely NOT a "cuddly" sort of fellow, but I can't find much incorrectness in what he says.

I don't see anything "un-Jedi" about "That which does not kill us, makes us stronger". I do agree with your point about the asterisks tho. And yes, that which does not kill us absolutely will hurt...but pain is temporary, and what emerges on the other side of that trial will undoubtedly be an individual who is stronger in him/her self than before. Of course Nietzsche's definition of "stronger" approximately equals the urban definition of "hard"...As in life on the streets makes one hard...Referring to the "hardening" of one's soul due to harsh circumstances.

Not exactly "happy thoughts", but many of us (myself included) have come from such "harsh circumstances" and become Nietzsche's view of stronger in the process. As I said, Nietzsche is not exactly "cuddly", but he's not exactly "un-Jedi" either.

I would tend to agree tho, that as a "beginner course" or intro to Jediism, perhaps Nietzsche isn't the best choice. (He is a bit "dark" in his outlook...one might even say a bit Nihilistic. lol)

Alluvius wrote: This is not about who would be a "better" choice, by the way. Just, why that one?

I've been wondering the same thing. Sure, George Lucas consulted with him for the first Star Wars movie(s), but I think there are far better subjects and authors to spend one's time reading.... i.e.:

The Way of Zen
Everyday Tao

etc.

Streen wrote: I've been wondering the same thing. Sure, George Lucas consulted with him for the first Star Wars movie(s), but I think there are far better subjects and authors to spend one's time reading.... i.e.:

The Way of Zen
Everyday Tao

etc.

...And that was the purpose behind my question "Why do we care about Lucas?"

Which was to ask, why does what Lucas likes, or who Lucas consulted with rank any higher than the 1000 other people who've done research in the same field? Lucas invented the term "Jedi"...but beyond that, I see no correlation between the fictional universe created by George Lucas, and the "real" Jedi we're training to be.

The one thing that worries me on this thread tho, is that eventually it's likely to get boiled down to "if you don't like how we present the topic, why study here?". I'm hoping that we can come together in the spirit of constant improvement (of Self and community) and maybe "update" the program. Again, leave Campbell in place, but offer alternatives that preserve the intent behind the Campbell material while being more conducive to how some people assimilate information.

It might also not be a bad idea to keep in mind that everyone who comes here is not a "fresh n00b" to the subjects of religion, spirituality, and mythology (or storytelling). I'm not suggesting a "placement exam" or anything, but maybe include some more advanced material that still qualifies as "beginner" subjects?

Wow there is a lot here I want to comment on so I may jump around a bit in terms of what was brought up in the thread

This has ended up being longer than I wanted but enjoy!

Time...

I star with the most important thing... time...

TotJO is young evolutionarily wise... in total we are coming up to our 7th birthday (25th December 2005 I think is when this was created)

A lot has changed... and a lot has stayed the same... perhaps to our benefit or detriment

One of these things that has stayed the same is some of the content of the Initiates Programme. Joseph Campbell and Alan Watts material was there when I joined back in 2007... this is no bad thing for me of course, because I loved both of those courses

But I really don't like McTaggart lol. I did the work (thankfully it was short ) but I thought she was talking rubbish

This only really probably makes sense from someone who's been here a fair while (such as myself) but I can assure you that the last year has been the most active and changing year so far

Our membership increased drastically and more importantly it was membership that has stayed with us...

Updates

There are other forums where things get discussed and the IP has come up in those forums. It is being worked on. recently for example a decision a couple of decisions were made about the Back Catalogue (Essays section) and that was updated...

We are always thinking of things to add and to update about our site and I can guarantee you that next year, now that we are starting to get our footing on a lot of things (a lot more active knights for example) things are going to change even faster

Addressing Star Wars Fiction

I couldn't really care much about Star Wars. It's there, it's kind of cool but... meh...

I am on the side of Aly, Jestor and V (though I don't think she has actually posted in here yet)

This relates a lot to time... TotJO used to be much more 'Star Wars' influenced than it is today. No we were never roleplayers etc, but we have simply changed our views of things and separated ourselves out from some of the material

As I said the IP hasn't changed much and it is quite likely that it was chosen (truth is you would have to ask Br John about the specific author choice for a subject) partly because we are based on the influences behind the Star Wars movies and Campbell is a really obvious link to choose...

Apprenticeship...

I'm slightly surprised this hasn't been brought up already actually...

The Initiates Programme is just the start of training here... unless you are an apprentice you don't have access to the 100+ or something lessons that are stored elsewhere...

Some of these are from the training programmes of your future Teaching Masters

Streen... I teach The Way of Zen lol and I know Br John does (because he taught me). That's what I mean by all of the additional stuff that you don't really see as an Initiate or lower...

I would understand if people thought that maybe it might be a good idea to highlight this so that people are more aware that it is really the Apprenticeship that is the more 'fulfilling' part of the training (and then subsequent Knight training...) than just the Initiate Programme

Recently more changes have actually been made to the Apprenticeship programme than too the Initiate Programme lol it just doesn't filter down so much when you aren't an Apprentice

Ironing

Personally if you are ever struggling to watch or listen to something then I suggest you try doing it while undertaking some mindless and repetitive task. My personal choice is to do it while ironing my clothes