Light or Shadow?

That is certainly not how I read it, as my post was quoted, and his was shortly after mine. Entirely too coincidental. And even if he WAS talking about the Jedi path, really? He wants to dismiss an entire path as semi clever and grade school level?

I don't think so. Either way, uncool move.

Apologies, I had read through the post several times looking for the phrases you mentioned and somehow repeatedly missed them. On about my fifth reading I have now spotted them.

Khaos...that's not really how we roll here. It's quite alright to disagree with something someone has said, but to insult their intelligence is another thing entirely...

That said, he did raise some interesting points, and in general he was talking about the quality of the Jedi path.

I reread it several times, and I took it to be an overall statement, not one aimed at you Desolous...

Yours just happened to be the last post, basically summing up...

And, while I could debate the words you used, I wont, cause I like'em...

DOnt take it personal, Its in text, and he is referring to what Alethea calls our "passive" ways...

Longer post from me coming soon on this thread...

I said when I left earlier, everyone play nice... Grrrr:evil:

So, whenever I get stuck... Trying to see what everyone is saying...

I look to nature...

Consequently, this is how I see it...

We are talking about the evolution of the Jedi species...

Alethea, and her camp, are talking active culling... And cultivation, to be honest... If you need help, they are there to offer it...

But culling to remove the unworthy, basically... You dont measure up, you are not worthy to call yourself a Jedi....

If you do not want to live the life, then why call yourself a Jedi?

TOTJO, let the weak die off... If you dont want to participate, fine, dont, We are not here to beg anyone... If you need help, ask, otherwise, how are we to know you need assistence?

Want to call yourself, ok, want to live the life? Ah, you want to be a Jedi Knight(TOTJO standards)...


Nothing is wrong with either approach... They are just different...


Who is enabling who?

Alethea and company, cut someone, or someone feels cut, then they whine that this group left them on their own... Which, by not applying themselves, the whiner actually did... "NObody loves me, everybody hates me", says the whiner...

TOTJO, doesnt offer help, so the whiners say, "no one helped me, they dont even care", and we didnt... Unless ask for, why would we?



Who is strong?

The ones who demand that you try, and set there and push you, reminding you to stay on the Path...

Or those that are on the Path because they choose, and have to push themselves to excel...


They actually compliment each other quite well, these two theories.. lol...

I said earlier, that if you ask me for help, you want something from me, and you are more likely to absorb what I have to offer...

Whereas, if you dont ask, and I tell you anyway... Your mind may not be focused on what I have to say, and you may miss something important...

If you are not interested enough to take the steps to help yourself, then how hard am I to push?


You referenced Randi Oxford earlier, did you ask for help? I guessing not, you had other things going on...

So, am I to pursue you and tell you to come back and study?

+++++++++++++++
And, on this light and shadow title that started this...

In my comparison to nature, I was having trouble finding a darkside, or shadow, shoot, even a light side...

So, by using nature, could anyone provide me with examples of nature having a side?

Some of us, (not me) feel there is multiple sides to the force, so, besides man, I was looking for another example...

Darkside, lightside, or shadow by using this Jedi reference, not like "shade, lack of light, absolute sunshine, or some other malarkey... You all know what I mean...

Khaos, you raise an interesting point here:

People argue about it because the path is important to them. The quality of the path is important to them, as well as the people in it. That's a good thing. They want it to be the best it can be.

Why would Jedi be so concerned about the title 'Jedi'?

I mean I guess I care about the title. I call myself a Jedi. But saying that doesn't mean that I have a go at people for not being what I consider 'Jedi-like'

I argue with them if they do something that I consider wrong or foolish or if we're just having a discussion but not once in my mind does the fact that I'm arguing with a Jedi enter. I always just think I'm arguing with 'some person'

People are just people and I don't pay attention to whatever names they are given (Jedi, Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Bob...) I find I can quite happily have a conversation with them all

Whatever quality there is in my title 'Jedi' will be shown by my actions and mine alone. I don't want, or need, to judged based on other people


In response to:

Less arguing doesn't speak of harmony always, most time its complacency. Or an inability to make hard choices and do the work required for above mentioned evolution.

I can understand some kind of long term benefit based on this, but to be honest I think there is enough arguing in the world already that it might be good if we simply relaxed and got on with going about our lives in peace

I mean I guess I care about the title. I call myself a Jedi. But saying that doesn't mean that I have a go at people for not being what I consider 'Jedi-like'

I argue with them if they do something that I consider wrong or foolish or if we're just having a discussion but not once in my mind does the fact that I'm arguing with a Jedi enter. I always just think I'm arguing with 'some person'

People are just people and I don't pay attention to whatever names they are given (Jedi, Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Bob...) I find I can quite happily have a conversation with them all

Hmm, depends on what the arguement is about really doesnt it? Is it about the Jedi? How then would that not come into account. Jedi, is more than just an individual, incidently referring to religion/philosophy and then trying to tie it in with a pronoun(Bob) doesnt fly. As "Bob" could be a priest that diddled little kids in his spare time. Do you think the Catholic church wont catch flak for that?

Jedi represents quite a bit more than just you. As it would for any organization.

Not that im going to be the one that argues the selfishness applied here, or here.

Whatever quality there is in my title 'Jedi' will be shown by my actions and mine alone. I don't want, or need, to judged based on other people

Again, no judgements on the selfishness, but, there is more than just yourself to consider, and your actions, by choosing a title that many claim, speaks for more than just you, just as it would for any group or organization. As does any other individual who acts under said name.

Which converesely, reflects on the the group if your actions are shall we say....less than steller. So whatever quality there is....it would be more than a bit naive to think it would only be about you. And the judgements of others could hurt other Jedi.

Apparently your to busy thinking about yourself.

Its not all about just what you dont want or need, and hell, noone likes to be held to standards other than there own, and yet, you do not escape it in any aspect of life, and remember, this is coming from someone of the Dark, our very mottoe(unofficialy) is "Darkness is about the individual."

However such thinking can go to far,to the point of ignorance, as well as get you into trouble.

Even as such theres times and places I am held to the standards and judgements of others. My job,hell, even interviewing for my job, or further, going to school to get the license(RN) for my job. When I visit my martial arts instructor, or pay a mat fee at another dojo/style(and this is even at being a dojo owner and operator in my own right).

There is myriad of other examples in life to where this applies. Still, if your only gonna concern yourself with yourself and say screw everyone else, I might suggest simply joining the Sith.:evil:

Anyone in the military would more than likely understand the concept. Theres a bunch of rules and standards,and I imagine they all dont sit well with each individual.

And no, im not saying Jedi are militant, or should be.

I can understand some kind of long term benefit based on this, but to be honest I think there is enough arguing in the world already that it might be good if we simply relaxed and got on with going about our lives in peace

Because there is arguing in the world, the Jedi shouldnt argue....

What does what the world is doing have to do with what your doing? Im not following your logic here.

Again, it comes down for responsibility for what youve created. If you werent planning to put the work in, you shouldnt have begun. Lol, and yhe above thinking I addressed is the biggest reason for any arguements anyway.


Noone willing to work together when they gotta sacrifice something of themselves for it.

So...good luck with that.

Khaos...that's not really how we roll here. It's quite alright to disagree with something someone has said, but to insult their intelligence is another thing entirely

What does it matter? Who am I to judge? Who are you? Lets try to be a bit less finger pointy....Ah, but thats the rub isnt it?

Is this not a standard I am being ....recommended, to adhere to that isn't my own?

Quality control...Important or no?

See? It can be done.

lol, but that's not necessarily taking on a teaching role. That's simply living the Path.

I've gotten the question a couple of times, so I'll put up the information here.

The difference between a Jedi and a Jedi Knight, IMHO, isn't your level of mastery- it's your responsibility to the order you received the title. A Jedi lives the path and can easily be at the level of Knight or Master, but never obtain the name because they don't necessarily feel called to teach the path to others. A Knight has a responsibility to pass along the path to other students. A Master is both mastery of path and the responsibility for passing along the path to other students, and helping the knights achieve excellence.

Yours just happened to be the last post, basically summing up...

Well yeah, it did say it was the "too long, didnt read version" and although I did read the whole thing....I didnt want to make a post that big quoting each individual person.

If you were insulted, then you should ask yourself why.

Dont expect me too apologize. I engage the way I do out of respect.

If I wanted to insult you, I wouldnt address you at all.

Jestor wrote: So, whenever I get stuck... Trying to see what everyone is saying...

I look to nature...

It is very wise to look always to Nature to understand the mysteries of the Universe. For Nature is all there really is. It is the Truth hidden in plain sight by external appearances. There is nothing in all the world that is actually "supernatural". A thing either exists, is a part of Nature (even if a part we don't yet know about or understand) and is thus natural, or it doesn't exist.

The first true scientists were called Natural Philosophers, and it was meant in the literal meaning of the translation: philo- meaning love, -sophy meaning wisdom, thus they were lovers of wisdom based on nature. They were able to discover all seven of the fundamental axioms of the Force, as well as all of the basic principles of science, solely by observing natural processes.

Jestor wrote: And, on this light and shadow title that started this...

In my comparison to nature, I was having trouble finding a darkside, or shadow, shoot, even a light side...

So, by using nature, could anyone provide me with examples of nature having a side?

Some of us, (not me) feel there is multiple sides to the force, so, besides man, I was looking for another example...

Darkside, lightside, or shadow by using this Jedi reference, not like "shade, lack of light, absolute sunshine, or some other malarkey... You all know what I mean...

I am very glad you brought this up again. I asked before what people here think the Dark Side is, and nobody really said anything, except for a grand total of one person (Adder). And even he admitted that he had successfully not answered the question. But I think he did so in a way that answered much more than it didn't. Thank you for that, Adder. But come on, does anybody else have any ideas on this at all? You don't have to be a Sith to know what the Dark Side is.

Which led me to believe maybe nobody here really believes in the Dark Side of the Force... which if true would be a very odd thing indeed for a group of Jedi. But you are very right, Jestor, it is necessary first to have an accurate conception of what the Dark Side even supposedly is, if those of us who are undecided are to decide informedly for themselves if it actually exists or not.

I know the Dark Side exists, because I have used it successfully in the past. The nature of the Force itself is mysterium, so that is no less true for the Dark Side. Which is to say, even if I describe the nature and characteristics of the Dark Side as I have understood it, it will not effect agreement, even if it is perfectly reasonable, until a person channels the Dark Side for themselves. Which I am not at all advocating anyone do unless they are prepared to experience the consequences.

I do intend on answering your question, though. I just want to finish writing this other post about justice and injustice, as I mentioned previously to Resticon. (Oh, and sorry, Resticon, I didn't mean to type "Adam Smith" at the end of that post; not sure how I missed that.)

Fraternally in the Force,
-David