Light or Shadow?

"I would not tell them they are not a Jedi if their actions do not meet the definition that I have for a Jedi. "

Though I will say this, IMHO, if someone is not willing to call out another for not living the path (regardless of what that path is, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, etc), they don't need to be teaching it. So, if you take up the mantle to teach the Jedi Path here, I highly recommend you immerse yourself into upholding the standards. Because you will be reaponsible for carrying on and furthering the order's integrity and tradition of excellence.

FraterDavid wrote: I know this was said to me about 15 pages ago, but I'm just getting around to it. Sorry!

Learn_To_Know wrote: what you descibed a Jedi as being can aptly be written with no change in substance except the subject in question to this:

"What makes a Christian is a Code of honor and upright behavior, one that upholds the law so as to exalt virtue, defends the weak and the innocent, speaks honestly, seeks out the truth, respects all life, and has as a primary focus the fostering of Love and Service within the heart of each Christian."

Above that paragraph you said "But a Jedi is not simply a Force user" yet that is precisely (in my opinion) what makes us different from the attributes you applied to a Jedi that could just as easily apply to a Christian. Whether you believe in the Force literally or as a myth that gives your life direction, this is the separation between Jedi and other good people.

I agree. That's why I said "not simply", implying that Jedi are also Force practitioners. It requires the whole package.

Learn_To_Know wrote: I also believe there are such things as facts and opinion, but your brief definition of a Jedi is still opinion. In my opinion, haha!

You said it's not a matter of [your] opinion, but it is! Haha. Even though I agree with how you described a Jedi to be, it's still your opinion, no? How could it not be? Again, it's a well-reasoned opinion, and I agree with you, but it's still completely subjective and you might even have a Jedi here come out and say honesty is not always the best policy, thus negating one of your Jedi attributes. Who is right in that case?

No, I agree that what I asserted there was my opinion (albeit an opinion that I feel is based on the facts found from observation of the movies). But that's not what I meant when I said "not a matter of my opinion". If you'll go back and check, I was saying that statement right after this one: "The needless dilution of meaning by wanton ambiguity of the word Jedi does a disservice to everyone here except the lazy or fantasizing." That is what I was referring to. Not my specific definition.

Fraternally in the Force,
-David

I've read and acknowledge your response! But I have nothing else to add to your points, haha.

I'm pretty much an observer of this long thread now...



MTFBWY,
LTK

Alethea Thompson wrote: "I would not tell them they are not a Jedi if their actions do not meet the definition that I have for a Jedi. "

Though I will say this, IMHO, if someone is not willing to call out another for not living the path (regardless of what that path is, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, etc), they don't need to be teaching it. So, if you take up the mantle to teach the Jedi Path here, I highly recommend you immerse yourself into upholding the standards. Because you will be reaponsible for carrying on and furthering the order's integrity and tradition of excellence.

(Observer to contributor again -- speaking about myself, ha!)

Sometimes the best way to "call" someone out is to live your own Jedi ideals in such a way as to be a "light unto the world" as Jesus taught.

What are the majority of people drawn to generally: a city on the hill, or the darkness under a bushel?

There may be a time and a place to have to directly call someone out, but I think this is the exception more than the rule.

MTFBWY,
LTK

Alethea Thompson wrote: "I would not tell them they are not a Jedi if their actions do not meet the definition that I have for a Jedi. "

Though I will say this, IMHO, if someone is not willing to call out another for not living the path (regardless of what that path is, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, etc), they don't need to be teaching it. So, if you take up the mantle to teach the Jedi Path here, I highly recommend you immerse yourself into upholding the standards. Because you will be reaponsible for carrying on and furthering the order's integrity and tradition of excellence.

Well I thank you for your opinion, however, at this point I am just going to agree to disagree with you and leave it at that. Take care!

I have said this a few times on this page before, and here it is again. It should not be about 'this is jedi, that is jedi, this is not'. In particular when in regards to Judging others' level of Jedi. That just smacks of 'i'm better than you, you are wrong, and my version is right'.

This religion is still very much quite new. There will be a lot of growing, evolution. And if all of us just spend that time arguing over who is more correct, its gonna be a long trip.

Tl;dr version- be less judgmental. And I realize I'm judging someone elses level of judgementalism. C'est la vie.

I have said this a few times on this page before, and here it is again. It should not be about 'this is jedi, that is jedi, this is not'. In particular when in regards to Judging others' level of Jedi. That just smacks of 'i'm better than you, you are wrong, and my version is right'.

This religion is still very much quite new. There will be a lot of growing, evolution. And if all of us just spend that time arguing over who is more correct, its gonna be a long trip

Well, not everyone can or gets to be right. Just not how life works.

What it means in taking responsibility for what you are forging requires a measure of quality control.

Which, of course will make it a long trip. Lol, and a hard one, which most Jedi espouse is part of being a Jedi. The easy way would be to avoid the whole situation,especially in the semi clever way you just attempted. However, you said there will be a growing evolution. Growth isnt always pleasent or easy. Its called growing pains for a reason.

Also evolution means things get left out sometimes. In a path sometimes that means people.

People argue about it because the path is important to them. The quality of the path is important to them, as well as the people in it. That's a good thing. They want it to be the best it can be.

Less arguing doesn't speak of harmony always, most time its complacency. Or an inability to make hard choices and do the work required for above mentioned evolution.

Being less judgemental, isn't always a good thing. It can be just as detrimental as anything else.

Especially in a new path. Really though, you wouldn't want it in the foods you eat, the houses you build, the cars you drive, etc, etc. You wouldn't accept that excuse (as that's what it has inevitability become) or mode of thought from the builders, mechanics, the fruits and veggies as well as other foods you get at the grocery store...so why would anyone assume it would apply to a path?

Responsibility isn't something you can or should avoid by hiding behind accusations that show a grade school level of reverse psychology.

If there is no right or wrong way, if there is no quality or focus to this path, if just anyone can stroll in and claim it then how meaningful and viable a path is it?

Further how do you teach or guide someone? I mean, who are you to judge right?

Just keep it vague and ambiguous so noones feelings get hurt,noonday has to change, noonday has to make a hard choice of whether or not thisxoath is truly for them.

That hardly sounds like an evolving path. It sounds like one that is fighting it.

The jedi path cant use the slogan " Have it your way."

Burger King already has it.

Lol, unless you like a path with a fast food mentality. Or indicitive of one.

And you'll get the same quality.

One day, if you really want this path to evolve your gonna have to nut up.

Alethea Thompson wrote: "I would not tell them they are not a Jedi if their actions do not meet the definition that I have for a Jedi. "

Though I will say this, IMHO, if someone is not willing to call out another for not living the path (regardless of what that path is, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, etc), they don't need to be teaching it. So, if you take up the mantle to teach the Jedi Path here, I highly recommend you immerse yourself into upholding the standards. Because you will be reaponsible for carrying on and furthering the order's integrity and tradition of excellence.

Unless, it is against the law, or some moral, mutually agreed code, not a personal definition, if it is not my apprentice, or a friend, I would not...

My mother-in-law is a wonderful woman...

That said, when we go out to eat, she loses her mind...

She is rude, and loud, and quite frankly embarrasses us all in the way she acts all judgmental...

Her thinking is, cause I have ask, is, "Well they need to know if they are not doing their job well."

Now, I agree, to a point... There is a not-so-rude way to inform people of their lack of performance... From a small tip, to actually asking if there is an issue (i did this recently, she was shocked I ask what was wrong, lol)...

Instead, I usually leave a large tip, and my average tip is 25-33%, to help brighten their day... Irritates my wife something fierce... Until we had someone come up, and, almost in tears, tell us how bad her day was going, babysitter was sick, car almost outta gas, yada-yada...

My wife stopped judging my tipping ways... We get preferred seating at our regular haunts as well... Maybe its my personality, but it wasnt when they didnt know me...

My point is, in the case of Jedi, if someone was acting not-to-Jedi-like (which we have not yet defined as a group, except to say 'being good', then I would do so quietly... By PM if I knew them, or through circuitous route if not well...

Or, most likely, not worry about it, as I am no ones "Master", and just like a family member who I can barely tolerate, just stay away from them...

Especially if it is just an interpretation of someones path...

You see me acting in some way at any given moment, you might think "what a goon...", But, look at my life overall... Maybe the moments leading up to this one were even less "jedi-like", and this is my best to date...lol...

I excuse myself when I burp now.... Baby steps... Baby steps...

Khaos wrote: Being less judgemental, isn't always a good thing. It can be just as detrimental as anything else.

Being judgemental doenst help either... edit: ok, maybe some who lack their own motivation...

I base my growth on what I see... A person does what they do, says what they will, then I determine how I would do so, and respond accordingly...

Khaos wrote: The jedi path cant use the slogan " Have it your way."

Sure we can... Not the fast food mentality, lol, I agree there...

We just cant say it...

As much as people want to think, they have the "right" to judge everything they see, my path is about me... And at its end, I will judge what I have accomplished...

Everyone else can take a long walk off a short pier... lol...

Im not worried about the opinions of others...

Semi clever? Grade school level?

You don't know me from Adam and vice versa, so let's pretend for a moment that its quite possible that I hold a couple of advanced degreees, worked in an extremely competitive and difficult industry and continue to do so now in a totally different field. And that maybe, just maybe, I fired off a post around @idnight after a long day, not expecting to be personally insulted on its quality level, especially in light of the fact that I try to keep things simple here to invite greater understanding and intteraction.

You may be vader reborn, khaos, or at least think you are. But in future, I would appreciate it if you went about your critiques ina lesws uncool manner, not just with me but with everyone else as well.

Thank you.

Forgive me if I am wrong Desolous, but I don't think that Khaos was talking about the quality of your post, he was talking about the quality of the 'Jedi path'...