Light or Shadow?

Sheuthem wrote: While I appreciate everything that is being said on this thread, does any of it really matter?

Forgive me, but are we not united here because we are seeking to become something better than we already are? Is that not what binds us together as a community, albeit and online one? I have only been involved a very short while, but what has struck me is the general respect that everyone has for one another. The striving of the general body of TOTJO toward something greater. In that respect, then, does it matter what other people define us as, so long as we are all happy with how we as individuals feel about what we are trying to accomplish?

Just putting that out there

Ultimately, no.

But without threads like these the Temple would be a lot quieter...that may be a good thing to some I guess, haha. I personally have really enjoyed the conversation.

Consider this:

A Protestant goes to a Catholic discussion board and says "You know, I think true Christians don't believe in Transubstantiation."

What are the reactions going to be like, do you think?

This thread on "Light or Shadow" and what is evolved into has renewed my faith in the Jedi path of peace and all of our abilities to read something we may not agree with, but discuss it politely and with respect.

Kudos to all participants on this thread!

MTFBWY,
LTK

Alethea Thompson wrote: Ren, that's EXACTLY what I said. Good grief. Since it wasn't clear, you could have just asked for me to draw you up a story map. It would have looked like this:

1996: Jedi Realists exists, have no name.
2000: Jedi Knight is claimed by people as their religion, thus Jediism comes about and in 2003 (or was it 2001?) the first Jedi Church is born.
2003/2004: Jedi Realist is coined to describe those that came before 2000.
Somewhere between 2005-2007ish: Opie MacLeod releases the name "Jedi Pragmatic" publically.

You didn't understand me, so I'll write it in a way you can understand.

1977: Jediists exist, have no name. Usually referred to as "weird ass geeks" or "hippies on shrooms".
2001: Jedi Knight is claimed by people as their religion, thus Jediism is coined around 2001/2002 to make the difference between real Jedi and census Jedi.
2003/2004: Jedi Realist is coined to describe those who wish they could be as cool as a real Jedi, but can't let go of their existing conflicting beliefs. Also enjoy claiming that all other Jedi before them were in fact Jedi realists.
Somewhere between 2005-2007ish: Opie MacLeod remains irrelevant.

Actually around 1996 Kharis Nightflyer was advocating meditation and real world techniques with a Jedi Philosophy. So your dates are a little off there Ren. Nerd to Knight gives a much better account of someone who has been doing this for quite some time and who was part of the original pre-2001 movement.

Can I get a TL;DR please? (Too Long, Didn't read)

I've tried reading through most of it so I get a basic jist of it, but just want the blunt facts of what's actually going on now...

See, to me, this history, while interesting, is irrelevant because you guys can't agree....

Someone, needs to become a real Jedi historian, and do some digging....

By that, I mean find some proof to be able to show...

I am of the folks who lived the life of a Jedi, since I saw the movies in '77... My path hasn't prolly been completely Jedi, I mixed a little Sith in there...

Only, I have done it as an individual... I joined TOTJO to be around similar minded individuals, and help me move past my personal stumbling blocks...

So to speak on this:

Alethea wrote: Yes, and no. It's great if you find your own path. And in fact, I'd encourage it. But for some that path does not represent something that is already present in the world. You could simply become the path of Sheuthem.

To honor the path in it's entirety, you become what the path was intended to become. Be honest with yourself on all levels "Do I represent what it means to be a Buddhist/Christian/Jedi/Wiccan/etc? Or am I something completely different?"

And that is something that brings up another point, which I might start a thread on when I get back from our Jedi Meet-up today: At what point does following a path become a hinderance to your growth as a person? And do you only stick by the name because it's the closest you can find? At what point does it just become the path of (insert your name here), rather than the Buddhist/Christian/Jedi/Wiccan/etc?

I am on the Path of Jestor....

No one has ever lived this Path, nor will anyone ever live this Path, exactly as I have....

Nor am I living this Path, trying to emulate anyone else....

We are all on our own Paths...

When we join similar mindsets, we only walk side by side... Not single file... We are not Tusken Raiders after all.... lol...

But, we are still on our own Paths... Who am I to say your "Jedi Path" is the wrong one?

This is why anyone can call themselves a Jedi... We just ask for more dedication at the next level... That's where people want to be taken serious....

This is the best essay on the meaning of religion I've seen. Feel free to substitute the word God with The Force or The Tao. If this is not what religion means it's what is should mean.

---

Br. John

On Religion

Kahlil Gibran

Have I spoken this day of aught else?
Is not religion all deeds and all reflection,
And that which is neither deed nor reflection, but a wonder and a surprise ever springing in the soul, even while the hands hew the stone or tend the loom?
Who can separate his faith from his actions, or his belief from his occupations?
Who can spread his hours before him, saying, "This for God and this for myself; This for my soul, and this other for my body?"
All your hours are wings that beat through space from self to self.
He who wears his morality but as his best garment were better naked.
The wind and the sun will tear no holes in his skin.
And he who defines his conduct by ethics imprisons his song-bird in a cage.
The freest song comes not through bars and wires.
And he to whom worshipping is a window, to open but also to shut, has not yet visited the house of his soul whose windows are from dawn to dawn.


Your daily life is your temple and your religion.
Whenever you enter into it take with you your all.
Take the plough and the forge and the mallet and the lute,
The things you have fashioned in necessity or for delight.
For in revery you cannot rise above your achievements nor fall lower than your failures.
And take with you all men:
For in adoration you cannot fly higher than their hopes nor humble yourself lower than their despair.


And if you would know God be not therefore a solver of riddles.
Rather look about you and you shall see Him playing with your children.
And look into space; you shall see Him walking in the cloud, outstretching His arms in the lightning and descending in rain.
You shall see Him smiling in flowers, then rising and waving His hands in trees.

http://jediorganization.addr.com/jedi/sites/swja/

There is a nice restoration of it, but as it concerns the internet such things prove nothing honestly.

Why are we getting caught up on this whole history business anyway?

I don't even know what this topic is about any more

Something about who is right and who is wrong, a little in there about definitions of people

And a whole lot that I don't think is really important to be fair...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwKEdFoUB0o

Akkarin wrote: And a whole lot that I don't think is really important to be fair..

Well it depends on your definition of important, does it not?

Is anything that we discuss on TOTJO vitally important?

Not saying it either is or isn't, just leaving you to draw your own conclusions...

Part of the reason we are here is because we like to debate and discuss things (that aren't necessarily really important, but are interesting to discuss nonetheless). Is that not the purpose of a forum?

Vicky... w....will you stop shoving the ugly truth in our faces please?

UraharaKiskue wrote: http://jediorganization.addr.com/jedi/sites/swja/

There is a nice restoration of it, but as it concerns the internet such things prove nothing honestly.

Who's running Jediorganization? Not Relan Voklum is it?