Child Abuse or Discipline?

I neither promote or approve of murder and as a Jedi the thought of such tactics are dark indeed. However, as Jedi, I think it is very important that we respect others beliefs and opinions. I think this is our most important trait which is why we can have Jedi from any age and from anywhere. Just my opinion.

Socrates

Legaliz human roadkill? My god I thought we were Jedi. I thought we were here to spread peace and justice throughout the galaxy. And here you are, a proponent of senseless murder

I agree with what you have said. And in effect it was to the same point I was trying to make. But, I feel as since we are both novice, it is not our place to openly ridicule our elders. Perhaps a private message would get your point across.

Wescli Wardest wrote: I agree with what you have said. And in effect it was to the same point I was trying to make. But, I feel as since we are both novice, it is not our place to openly ridicule our elders. Perhaps a private message would get your point across.

Never worry about that....

If we were so easily offended, we would not have earned our place here...

Somethings do need a PM, but this is not one of them... So I think, lol...

Carry on....

Yes, I mean no disrespect. If I offend anyone or cross any line I'd like them to tell me. Other than that I'm simply trying to express my opinion as well.

I personally am not offended in any way. I think this is a great discussion that is growing bigger and better each post. This is a pivotal topic that affects us all, not just a select group. Its talks like these that I personally think will either save or condemn our civilization on this planet.

I was not offended and apologize if I came across wrong. Mine was merely a concern over protocol based on the way I was taught. Of course it was via the US Army! And it has been pointed out to me that:
“Being a Jedi is a philosophical free-for-all....

I'm not right, you are not right... all we have are opinions....”
Please don’t let anything I have said hinder the free flow of thought.

I agree with Jestor, I must say as the person who has started this topic I love where it has gone. It has turned into a discussion, and not an emotional or angry argument but so far an intelligent conversation where people have expressed their opinions and been more or less accepting of others.

Now I guess I'll talk about my stance on this video.

I see it as abuse plain and simple, which many of you probably already assumed from what you know about me. We can all talk about how being "beat" when we were young steered us in the right direction, but if we take a scientific methodologically sound approach to the question, we find that all the relevant research would suggest that beating your children does no more to deter negative behavior than more "soft" approaches. We would find that giving your children time outs, and taking away privileges etc have more or less the same effect and the same rate of behavior change as beating children.

In most cases, the non-violent approaches are found more effective in research and studies.

As for those of you who have discussed the psychology behind this, I have a few points about that.

1. The idea that this is "Negative Reinforcement" would be wrong, this would actually be deemed "Positive Punishment". Just an issue of words being used, but negative reinforcement definitely is a misleading term. That would say that was the father is doing is reinforcing his daughters behavior, because her behavior is taking away something she didn't want around in the first place. That is clearly wrong. Positive punishment refers to what is happening, which is that the father is discouraging his daughters behavior by adding something as a punishment, that is, the beating in this case.

2. Beatings like this, are not only equal, if not less effective than non violent punishment, but often psychologically very damaging and more often than not create a cycle of violence that spreads through the family. It teaches children that when they get frustrated, or angry at someone that does something they didn't want them to do, then the appropriate response is to strike out at that person in violence.
- 2B. On a jedi side note, any situation like the one seen in this video would also teach our children that we should allow our emotions to dictate our behavior, as this father clearly is. I do believe that as Jedi, this is something we strive against.

This is all of course taken from my own psychological studies, and my work towards becoming a therapist.

Long post, don't know who'll read it, but there it is.

I really enjoyed reading your post. I can only speak from the receiving end of that and worse but I think its great to get a psychological idea in there. I do have a question though, what do you think should be done about kids that just cause trouble no matter whether they are beat or given tough love?

I'm sure that kids like this are made because of their up bringing but I was just wondering cause that describes my nephew lol.

Kids that do not respond at all to either option are generally children with truly trouble backgrounds, that have gotten to a point where their brain chemistry/wiring so to say has changed beyond a normal child. While this can be treated/fixed, if they are truly a terror, they generally need to medicated/and or treated aggressively in therapy.

If you have a child that simply refuses to listen, on the other hand, then you need to be hands on. This doesn't mean to beat the child, but if you are trying a non violent route, but the child doesn't listen when you try to put them on time out, then you have to MAKE them take their time out. An example would be this.

Child is going to play with their toys. You tell the child at the beginning that if they throw any toys, they will be put on time out. Sure enough, the child throws their toys, you tell them to go on time out, but they do not listen. What you do at this point, is you take you child, and you sit them in a chair. You hold them in that chair for the duration of their time out.

Yes, they might kick and scream, yes they might fight, yes they might cry, this is normal and doesn't really matter, you hold them their for the time out duration (you only really need 1-2 minutes). After that you look at them, and you explain why they had their time out, and you let them back to their toys, with the same warning of what the rules are. They might do it again, and if they do, CONSISTENCY IS THE KEY. If they do it again, you must again punish them, the exact same way. You can't let this negative behavior slide.

That'd be my recommendations based on research and anecdotal evidence.

I thought that was the way to go about it but yeah. The kid is a handful which makes it hard to be around him. I hope he gets better because that will make his life very hard.

Thanks for the info.