Child Abuse or Discipline?

Also, I would agree that you can't blame him for being upset, even seriously angry, but you can blame him for the way he reacted. I know my parents have been seriously angry with me for things I have done, but I've never been hit. My father was beat severely as a child, and thankfully for myself he broke the cycle and never once laid a hand on me.

That being said though, when I messed up, I knew it, and I never did it again. He had his own ways of making me know what I'd done was wrong, and making sure I didn't do it anymore. The same with my mom.

Anger is acceptable, his actions though are not.

Coryduran wrote:
That being said though, when I messed up, I knew it, and I never did it again. He had his own ways of making me know what I'd done was wrong, and making sure I didn't do it anymore.

My parents didn't believe in spanking and neither do I now. The only time my parents ever struck me was immediately after I struck one of them. I was so angry at my mother I just slapped her and she didn't hesitate to slap me right back. The lesson was learned: if you hit me, expect to be hit. I doubt that daughter ever hit her father after a beating like that. She has absolutely no power over her father. Just like when I was that age I knew, and blow I could deal to my mom she could deal right back. And rightfully so, I'd expect no one to feel like they can't defend themself. Yet here this man has taught this girl she must "submit"

Clearly this mans judgement on what is and is not child abuse is just plain wrong. That is his child. She is being physically and mentally abused. She should be going to therapy, and he should be removed from his position and put on a steady regimen of MDMA until he realizes what he's done.

I was brought up in a home that was run with love and care. BUT... my dad was the boss and ruled the house with an iron fist. Discipline was done with a belt and the sound of his boots coming home from work made me so afraid, I was like Pavlov's dog. I would here the boots and piss myself. When my mother said "wait til your father comes home", I just trembled.

Now I am not going to say this happened a lot. It didn't need to. It did happen enough to leave a mental image that I would wish on no one else. One day my mom said those fateful words when I was about 15yo. When my dad came home he told me to wait on him up in my room. So I did(not turning my back on him in fear of getting hit)and there I waited, scared and feeling abandoned. Finally my dad came up stairs, sat on the bed, and stared at me.

I remember his words well. He said "Your getting to old for me to be doing this. If you want to be treated like an adult, start acting like one. I don't want to have to spank you. Do you think I like coming home from work to do this? Please don't make me do this again. Now I going down stairs to eat. Come down in a few minutes and make mom think I spanked you."

It was at that moment I realized he was not the bad guy. He was stuck in a situation that he too could not stop. I was never hit again, and I gave him no reason to do it.

I may have gotten spanked by the belt but I was never "beaten" like the girl in the you tube. I agree with Jestor that we only see a segment of the total situation that precluded the incident. I do not believe that a person who sits in judgement over child abusers can be given any quarters on this issue. Having seen the outcome of terrible abuse and neglect, he should be more tolerant or at least more prepared to adequately discipline a child in an appropriate manor.

I wonder if there have been so many beatings that the daughter set up her father to be sued, or if she was just a spoiled child seeking revenge.

Either way it reminds us that the world looks different from a distance.

Coryduran wrote: Well I guess ultimately what he did could cost him his career. I read that while he won't be facing charges, there is still some board or whatever meeting over his fate as a judge, and a very likely possibility that he will be required to vacate the bench.

The RIAA, a powerful lobby group will make sure he is perceived as a hero upholding justice and whatnot. If he loses his job, they'll hire him.

ren wrote: The RIAA, a powerful lobby group will make sure he is perceived as a hero upholding justice and whatnot. If he loses his job, they'll hire him.

That's disgustingly corrupt and completely unjust.

We can all discuss this forever and we can tell stories about what our parents did and what we now do as parents but what difference does it make in our world? we need to be making sure this never happens to anyone else. Physical harm of any kind should not be tolerated. No one ever has the right to hurt another person without that person being able to defend themselves in a fair fight. It's against free will. We wouldn't need laws if people just respected eachothers right to free will. If this father understood his power as a parent he would have taken away privileges rather than giving physical pain. This is all so disgusting. People should know better but the people are being kept stupid and ignorant. We behave like animals. We should expect nothing less than animalistic violence.

The animals in my town are the kids who didn't get disciplined. The worst bit is, the rich kids go comit their crimes and other antisocial things on the council estates, making it shitter over there for everyone.they should legalize human roadkill.

I believe this is abuse. Not only physical but psychological; forcing ones dominance over another person. Why some people are allowed to breed is beyond me. Before someone disciplines they should be calm and in a state of understanding. What message does he think he is really conveying? Is this what he was subjected to? Children imitate what they learn. Healthy or unhealthy! When does the cycle stop?

Lack of discipline is not the only reason most children act out. Even with a decent upbringing; lack of attention can stem a rebellious reaction. There are many reasons children misbehave. I feel pity for them. How bad must your life been for you to make you feel that this behavior is acceptable to reach the desired effect of your actions? Blame is not the answer. Action by the ones responsible (parents) could quell this behavior. Physical discipline at a young age can be effective but as the child ages different approaches (types of reasoning) can be more affective. Ultimately we are all responsible for our own actions. And, I don’t believe there is any one right answer; because, we are all different and in different situations.

lack of attention can stem a rebellious reaction. There are many reasons children misbehave. I feel pity for them. How bad must your life been for you to make you feel that this behavior is acceptable to reach the desired effect of your actions? Blame is not the answer. Action by the ones responsible (parents) could quell this behavior.

Absolutely. A good beating is a show of attention, and unless the kid is masochist, will also be an effective deterrent. Fear of the police should help too. I'm not saying coppers should behave like the american ones, but if they are given some kind of power it would definitely help. There was a poll in the UK recently where nearly 50% of the population thought kids were thugs. Can you believe 10 year olds make sexual advances to 30 year old women? (In the street just like that) They only do it because they know the bloke next to her will not beat the crap out of them. Well one of the little shits tried to knife me once, cut a finger... He paid for it.

I am from the South, in the US. Texas to be precise and we are raised to accept certain behaviors as being unacceptable. Not to say that we don’t have our own problems, but on the whole, behavior that would lead to such actions is beaten out of us at early age. Now in the inner city there dose seem to be more, less desirable, social behaviors tolerated; and that is why neither I nor my daughter go there. Not to say that if I witnessed such a thing I wouldn’t respond to it. But, if they don’t understand that what they are doing is wrong, why would they change? Sometimes the punishment just teaches the person to fear the punisher, not that there was wrong. And I do be leave the police should be afforded more authority and ability to respond without fear of reprisal.

ren wrote: The animals in my town are the kids who didn't get disciplined. The worst bit is, the rich kids go comit their crimes and other antisocial things on the council estates, making it shitter over there for everyone.they should legalize human roadkill.

Legaliz human roadkill? My god I thought we were Jedi. I thought we were here to spread peace and justice throughout the galaxy. And here you are, a proponent of senseless murder. I realize you may be joking and that you may not actually want to commit vehicular manslaughter but you do seem to be on the side of abuse. How can we make this world a better place if we are not understanding of those we see as wrong? They only do wrong because they know no better. Do not hate them or be angry with them or hurt them. TEACH THEM. They are children in the bodies of adults that still have many lessons to learn. Unfortunately the children as adults can still have kids and do. So if were going to be changing laws, I propose we make a test for potential parents to ensure that they understand the necessities of raising a healthy human being, those that fail will be offered classes. That way people like this father would have been taught the negative psychological effects of negative reinforcement.

I mean hey, were overpopulated as is. I'm never one to take away peoples rights but maybe making the test really hard would make this world a better place in a few generations. Less people and the people that are here would have had a solid upbringing and would probably be less likely to follow the path of the Dark Side

I neither promote or approve of murder and as a Jedi the thought of such tactics are dark indeed. However, as Jedi, I think it is very important that we respect others beliefs and opinions. I think this is our most important trait which is why we can have Jedi from any age and from anywhere. Just my opinion.

Socrates

Legaliz human roadkill? My god I thought we were Jedi. I thought we were here to spread peace and justice throughout the galaxy. And here you are, a proponent of senseless murder

I agree with what you have said. And in effect it was to the same point I was trying to make. But, I feel as since we are both novice, it is not our place to openly ridicule our elders. Perhaps a private message would get your point across.

Wescli Wardest wrote: I agree with what you have said. And in effect it was to the same point I was trying to make. But, I feel as since we are both novice, it is not our place to openly ridicule our elders. Perhaps a private message would get your point across.

Never worry about that....

If we were so easily offended, we would not have earned our place here...

Somethings do need a PM, but this is not one of them... So I think, lol...

Carry on....

Yes, I mean no disrespect. If I offend anyone or cross any line I'd like them to tell me. Other than that I'm simply trying to express my opinion as well.

I personally am not offended in any way. I think this is a great discussion that is growing bigger and better each post. This is a pivotal topic that affects us all, not just a select group. Its talks like these that I personally think will either save or condemn our civilization on this planet.

I was not offended and apologize if I came across wrong. Mine was merely a concern over protocol based on the way I was taught. Of course it was via the US Army! And it has been pointed out to me that:
“Being a Jedi is a philosophical free-for-all....

I'm not right, you are not right... all we have are opinions....”
Please don’t let anything I have said hinder the free flow of thought.

I agree with Jestor, I must say as the person who has started this topic I love where it has gone. It has turned into a discussion, and not an emotional or angry argument but so far an intelligent conversation where people have expressed their opinions and been more or less accepting of others.

Now I guess I'll talk about my stance on this video.

I see it as abuse plain and simple, which many of you probably already assumed from what you know about me. We can all talk about how being "beat" when we were young steered us in the right direction, but if we take a scientific methodologically sound approach to the question, we find that all the relevant research would suggest that beating your children does no more to deter negative behavior than more "soft" approaches. We would find that giving your children time outs, and taking away privileges etc have more or less the same effect and the same rate of behavior change as beating children.

In most cases, the non-violent approaches are found more effective in research and studies.

As for those of you who have discussed the psychology behind this, I have a few points about that.

1. The idea that this is "Negative Reinforcement" would be wrong, this would actually be deemed "Positive Punishment". Just an issue of words being used, but negative reinforcement definitely is a misleading term. That would say that was the father is doing is reinforcing his daughters behavior, because her behavior is taking away something she didn't want around in the first place. That is clearly wrong. Positive punishment refers to what is happening, which is that the father is discouraging his daughters behavior by adding something as a punishment, that is, the beating in this case.

2. Beatings like this, are not only equal, if not less effective than non violent punishment, but often psychologically very damaging and more often than not create a cycle of violence that spreads through the family. It teaches children that when they get frustrated, or angry at someone that does something they didn't want them to do, then the appropriate response is to strike out at that person in violence.
- 2B. On a jedi side note, any situation like the one seen in this video would also teach our children that we should allow our emotions to dictate our behavior, as this father clearly is. I do believe that as Jedi, this is something we strive against.

This is all of course taken from my own psychological studies, and my work towards becoming a therapist.

Long post, don't know who'll read it, but there it is.

I really enjoyed reading your post. I can only speak from the receiving end of that and worse but I think its great to get a psychological idea in there. I do have a question though, what do you think should be done about kids that just cause trouble no matter whether they are beat or given tough love?

I'm sure that kids like this are made because of their up bringing but I was just wondering cause that describes my nephew lol.

Kids that do not respond at all to either option are generally children with truly trouble backgrounds, that have gotten to a point where their brain chemistry/wiring so to say has changed beyond a normal child. While this can be treated/fixed, if they are truly a terror, they generally need to medicated/and or treated aggressively in therapy.

If you have a child that simply refuses to listen, on the other hand, then you need to be hands on. This doesn't mean to beat the child, but if you are trying a non violent route, but the child doesn't listen when you try to put them on time out, then you have to MAKE them take their time out. An example would be this.

Child is going to play with their toys. You tell the child at the beginning that if they throw any toys, they will be put on time out. Sure enough, the child throws their toys, you tell them to go on time out, but they do not listen. What you do at this point, is you take you child, and you sit them in a chair. You hold them in that chair for the duration of their time out.

Yes, they might kick and scream, yes they might fight, yes they might cry, this is normal and doesn't really matter, you hold them their for the time out duration (you only really need 1-2 minutes). After that you look at them, and you explain why they had their time out, and you let them back to their toys, with the same warning of what the rules are. They might do it again, and if they do, CONSISTENCY IS THE KEY. If they do it again, you must again punish them, the exact same way. You can't let this negative behavior slide.

That'd be my recommendations based on research and anecdotal evidence.

I thought that was the way to go about it but yeah. The kid is a handful which makes it hard to be around him. I hope he gets better because that will make his life very hard.

Thanks for the info.