More then ever, this world needs a Jedi

It's not necessarily humanity as whole that is a problem here though, the problem is the situations that we are creating. If you look into social psychologies research into this area, specifically Dr. Phillip Zimbardo's work, you can learn that it's not necessarily a problem with the people specifically, but the system as a whole. Our police system in this country creates are a ground where not only is violent behavior like that tolerated, in the upper ranks like those white shirts, it is encouraged. It is a group where they view these protesters as sub human and below themselves, and thus deserving of any treatment they receive.

The place where Jediism helps most to prevent this treatment, is the philosophies we learn and believe. If you take a serious commitment to jedi ideals that all life is sacred, and that we should not do harm, and things like this, clearly one would not commit violent acts against protestors unprovoked. If one were provoked, would it even still be a violent act, or an act of defense? That's the biggest difference and the most appropriate response I can have to this in the sense of Jediism.

I do agree though, that Jediism would help, and that if others believed in the message of being a defender, doing the best for others, and an idea of non-harm, that this world would be a better place.

Instead of people taking it upon themselves to get involved/stay involved with each other, we created "rules" or "laws", and put people in charge of them....

Untrue. The rule of the strongest predates the rule of law. In theocracies, the strongest is the one "closest to god", so it's not necessarily down to physical strength. the rule of the strongest is something we can see today in the animal kingdom. think mammals living in packs.

So, do you believe it is ok to be selfish?

ren wrote:

Instead of people taking it upon themselves to get involved/stay involved with each other, we created "rules" or "laws", and put people in charge of them....

Untrue. The rule of the strongest predates the rule of law. In theocracies, the strongest is the one "closest to god", so it's not necessarily down to physical strength. the rule of the strongest is something we can see today in the animal kingdom. think mammals living in packs.

If we look at the animal kingdom, physical strength is what matters, or maybe the appearnace if it in some circumstances...

As long as the masses allow it, the rules will be....

When the masses decide to change, we have revolution....

So, do you believe it is ok to be selfish?

of course. "Jedi are selfless"? No thanks. I'm a shadow (down to earth ? ) Jedi. And I think you'll find all real life Jedi own things. A house, a car, a TV, some rubbish gadget with a touch screen, all sorts of things. These Jedi will call the police when they are being "arbitrarily deprived" of that property.

universal declaration of human rights:
"Article 17.

(1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property."

This means selfishness is a right, a right all of us computer owning internet using Jedi are enjoying not to say relying on.

I think the difference between this kind of selfish and the "selfish bastard" really isn't huge. quite small in fact. Which is why I say selfishness has some drawbacks but also some pretty good advantages. You have to look at all aspects of things to truly understand them.

If we look at the animal kingdom, physical strength is what matters

The animal kingdom rarely has anything else. They can't be strong in any other way simply because they haven't got religion on their side, or because they can't make great speeches, don't own a massive news corporation, banks, or don't own you, their employee looking forward to that paycheck.

I think your definition of selfish is far too broad. Here is an actual definition of selfish

devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.

I don't think that in my owning a TV or a laptop is at all selfish. Living in an apartment or having clothes does not make me selfish. Nor does my cheap car and phone. Were these material possessions and my own lifestyle the only things I cared about, then yes I would be selfish.

You also do not need to give up all possessions to be selfless, again I feel like you have the definitions of these words wrong.

I'm not trying to rub anyone the wrong way, but I can't disagree more with what you're saying.

My Friends. Especially to those who believe selfishness is an ok way to live:
Engrave this in your mind. It is so important. The worlds problems, our personal problems, and the actions that create the problems, come from our delusion that we are seperate from The Force, and the selfishness that results from that delusion.
Think about it fellow Jedi, would there be wars if we knew we were One, if all you could do was fight and hurt yourself? Nay! Because what is the point of hurting yourself, or waging war on yourself? Would there be Opression? Nope! Because what is the point of opressing yourself? Would there be anger? Jealousy? Theft? Starvation? Racial hatred? Nada! It wouldn't, and doesnt make sense!
Think about all the problems I just mentioned. What is behind wach one of them? Humans, yes, but what is behind their problem causing actions? You already know, but I'll say it anyway. Don't get caught in the surface illusions. Don't think the problem is "greed"-because what is the cause of greed? SELFISHNESS. Don't think the problem is hate-what's the source of hate? SELFISHNESS. I proclaim this for all of you to see. The real problem, the real enemy, the real source of all the "bad" things on Earth is simply selfish people acting selfishly.
It is up to each person to change themselves, not the world. That is the only way to change the world. Each of us is a SELFISH person acting SELFISHLY. We are thus our own enemy.
Going furhtur to the root of the matter -What is behind selfishness? THINKING YOU ARE SEPERATE FROM EVERYTHING ELSE. Then "looking out for number one" begins. And when you have a while world full of people looking our fot number one, you can see the results -just watch the news.
In order to permanently eradicate this selfish monster that plagues us all, and plagues the world, we must get to the root of it. If you want to permanently kill a plant, and insure that it won't grow back again, you need to destroy the root. At the root of selfishness is our illusion that we are not One with All things, All life, the entire Universe, and our subsequent belief that this illusion is real. This belief created a new identity, and supports the existence of this new seperate identity (that is naturally selfish), and therin lies the enemy. But our belief is a lie, the illusion is not real. It is like we are asleep, and thus our of touch with the reality of the real "awake" world that is around out sleeping body. We are each sleeping with this enemy we created- we remain unconscious, letting our enemy command the helm of the ship of our lives- like a dream we have no control over. Meanwhile, our spiritual self, the part of us that is One with the Force, is "locked up in the brig" and just forced to go along on the voyage like so much baggage. This is something that each of us must personally come to deal with, and then be on alert about, each moment of all our days on Earth. But you cannot fight your selfish seperate self directly, it only gives it energy.
The only way to change things and get back in harmony with the Force, is to starve the selfish seperate self of energy -of giving in to it, of thought "attention", and simultanesously nurture the Inner Being.
I think that's enough for now. I can give my thoughts on the selfish seperate self in a more appropiate Forum. That is all.

So, Amrathelion Kelosi, what do you do for others ?

Coryduran wrote: I think your definition of selfish is far too broad. Here is an actual definition of selfish

devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.

I don't think that in my owning a TV or a laptop is at all selfish. Living in an apartment or having clothes does not make me selfish. Nor does my cheap car and phone. Were these material possessions and my own lifestyle the only things I cared about, then yes I would be selfish.

You also do not need to give up all possessions to be selfless, again I feel like you have the definitions of these words wrong.

I'm not trying to rub anyone the wrong way, but I can't disagree more with what you're saying.

yet, you acquired this car, TV and laptop for selfish reasons. More specifically, your personal comfort and entertainment. You could have spent this resources feeding a couple of guys for life in some african dump. But you didn't. Your comfort and entertainment mattered more at the time. You worked your ass off, and you treated yourself as a result. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying it's OK, that you shouldn't feel like shit about it, but at the same time, at least, that you be honest with yourself instead of being in denial like most other people.

Breathing could be considered selfish. Alan Watts mentions selflessness is also a selfish attachment of the ego. All things which do not bring suffering onto yourself then could be considered in part selfish. Even feeding the poor might be considered selfish if you do it to feel good about yourself. So we might feel the need to define it in real terms and outline boundaries which make sense. Intention seems important and I think being alive means we are here to grow, so I think the measure is level of efficiency in growth. For example, if you buy a nice car which breaks down less then you can achieve more which means you can give more.