More then ever, this world needs a Jedi

It's not necessarily humanity as whole that is a problem here though, the problem is the situations that we are creating. If you look into social psychologies research into this area, specifically Dr. Phillip Zimbardo's work, you can learn that it's not necessarily a problem with the people specifically, but the system as a whole. Our police system in this country creates are a ground where not only is violent behavior like that tolerated, in the upper ranks like those white shirts, it is encouraged. It is a group where they view these protesters as sub human and below themselves, and thus deserving of any treatment they receive.

The place where Jediism helps most to prevent this treatment, is the philosophies we learn and believe. If you take a serious commitment to jedi ideals that all life is sacred, and that we should not do harm, and things like this, clearly one would not commit violent acts against protestors unprovoked. If one were provoked, would it even still be a violent act, or an act of defense? That's the biggest difference and the most appropriate response I can have to this in the sense of Jediism.

I do agree though, that Jediism would help, and that if others believed in the message of being a defender, doing the best for others, and an idea of non-harm, that this world would be a better place.

Instead of people taking it upon themselves to get involved/stay involved with each other, we created "rules" or "laws", and put people in charge of them....

Untrue. The rule of the strongest predates the rule of law. In theocracies, the strongest is the one "closest to god", so it's not necessarily down to physical strength. the rule of the strongest is something we can see today in the animal kingdom. think mammals living in packs.

So, do you believe it is ok to be selfish?

ren wrote:

Instead of people taking it upon themselves to get involved/stay involved with each other, we created "rules" or "laws", and put people in charge of them....

Untrue. The rule of the strongest predates the rule of law. In theocracies, the strongest is the one "closest to god", so it's not necessarily down to physical strength. the rule of the strongest is something we can see today in the animal kingdom. think mammals living in packs.

If we look at the animal kingdom, physical strength is what matters, or maybe the appearnace if it in some circumstances...

As long as the masses allow it, the rules will be....

When the masses decide to change, we have revolution....

So, do you believe it is ok to be selfish?

of course. "Jedi are selfless"? No thanks. I'm a shadow (down to earth ? ) Jedi. And I think you'll find all real life Jedi own things. A house, a car, a TV, some rubbish gadget with a touch screen, all sorts of things. These Jedi will call the police when they are being "arbitrarily deprived" of that property.

universal declaration of human rights:
"Article 17.

(1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property."

This means selfishness is a right, a right all of us computer owning internet using Jedi are enjoying not to say relying on.

I think the difference between this kind of selfish and the "selfish bastard" really isn't huge. quite small in fact. Which is why I say selfishness has some drawbacks but also some pretty good advantages. You have to look at all aspects of things to truly understand them.

If we look at the animal kingdom, physical strength is what matters

The animal kingdom rarely has anything else. They can't be strong in any other way simply because they haven't got religion on their side, or because they can't make great speeches, don't own a massive news corporation, banks, or don't own you, their employee looking forward to that paycheck.

I think your definition of selfish is far too broad. Here is an actual definition of selfish

devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.

I don't think that in my owning a TV or a laptop is at all selfish. Living in an apartment or having clothes does not make me selfish. Nor does my cheap car and phone. Were these material possessions and my own lifestyle the only things I cared about, then yes I would be selfish.

You also do not need to give up all possessions to be selfless, again I feel like you have the definitions of these words wrong.

I'm not trying to rub anyone the wrong way, but I can't disagree more with what you're saying.

My Friends. Especially to those who believe selfishness is an ok way to live:
Engrave this in your mind. It is so important. The worlds problems, our personal problems, and the actions that create the problems, come from our delusion that we are seperate from The Force, and the selfishness that results from that delusion.
Think about it fellow Jedi, would there be wars if we knew we were One, if all you could do was fight and hurt yourself? Nay! Because what is the point of hurting yourself, or waging war on yourself? Would there be Opression? Nope! Because what is the point of opressing yourself? Would there be anger? Jealousy? Theft? Starvation? Racial hatred? Nada! It wouldn't, and doesnt make sense!
Think about all the problems I just mentioned. What is behind wach one of them? Humans, yes, but what is behind their problem causing actions? You already know, but I'll say it anyway. Don't get caught in the surface illusions. Don't think the problem is "greed"-because what is the cause of greed? SELFISHNESS. Don't think the problem is hate-what's the source of hate? SELFISHNESS. I proclaim this for all of you to see. The real problem, the real enemy, the real source of all the "bad" things on Earth is simply selfish people acting selfishly.
It is up to each person to change themselves, not the world. That is the only way to change the world. Each of us is a SELFISH person acting SELFISHLY. We are thus our own enemy.
Going furhtur to the root of the matter -What is behind selfishness? THINKING YOU ARE SEPERATE FROM EVERYTHING ELSE. Then "looking out for number one" begins. And when you have a while world full of people looking our fot number one, you can see the results -just watch the news.
In order to permanently eradicate this selfish monster that plagues us all, and plagues the world, we must get to the root of it. If you want to permanently kill a plant, and insure that it won't grow back again, you need to destroy the root. At the root of selfishness is our illusion that we are not One with All things, All life, the entire Universe, and our subsequent belief that this illusion is real. This belief created a new identity, and supports the existence of this new seperate identity (that is naturally selfish), and therin lies the enemy. But our belief is a lie, the illusion is not real. It is like we are asleep, and thus our of touch with the reality of the real "awake" world that is around out sleeping body. We are each sleeping with this enemy we created- we remain unconscious, letting our enemy command the helm of the ship of our lives- like a dream we have no control over. Meanwhile, our spiritual self, the part of us that is One with the Force, is "locked up in the brig" and just forced to go along on the voyage like so much baggage. This is something that each of us must personally come to deal with, and then be on alert about, each moment of all our days on Earth. But you cannot fight your selfish seperate self directly, it only gives it energy.
The only way to change things and get back in harmony with the Force, is to starve the selfish seperate self of energy -of giving in to it, of thought "attention", and simultanesously nurture the Inner Being.
I think that's enough for now. I can give my thoughts on the selfish seperate self in a more appropiate Forum. That is all.

So, Amrathelion Kelosi, what do you do for others ?

Coryduran wrote: I think your definition of selfish is far too broad. Here is an actual definition of selfish

devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.

I don't think that in my owning a TV or a laptop is at all selfish. Living in an apartment or having clothes does not make me selfish. Nor does my cheap car and phone. Were these material possessions and my own lifestyle the only things I cared about, then yes I would be selfish.

You also do not need to give up all possessions to be selfless, again I feel like you have the definitions of these words wrong.

I'm not trying to rub anyone the wrong way, but I can't disagree more with what you're saying.

yet, you acquired this car, TV and laptop for selfish reasons. More specifically, your personal comfort and entertainment. You could have spent this resources feeding a couple of guys for life in some african dump. But you didn't. Your comfort and entertainment mattered more at the time. You worked your ass off, and you treated yourself as a result. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying it's OK, that you shouldn't feel like shit about it, but at the same time, at least, that you be honest with yourself instead of being in denial like most other people.

Breathing could be considered selfish. Alan Watts mentions selflessness is also a selfish attachment of the ego. All things which do not bring suffering onto yourself then could be considered in part selfish. Even feeding the poor might be considered selfish if you do it to feel good about yourself. So we might feel the need to define it in real terms and outline boundaries which make sense. Intention seems important and I think being alive means we are here to grow, so I think the measure is level of efficiency in growth. For example, if you buy a nice car which breaks down less then you can achieve more which means you can give more.

Hi Amrathelion Kelosi

Agreed that being selfish isn’t a good thing. And just to clarify, I am not really OK with the notion either as it has a lot to answer for, but here is a scenario that might explain what I am saying better.

Let’s say that I wanted the world to be peaceful and harmonious because I would directly benefit from it and I only cared for how it would make me feel, but I wanted it none the less. My reasons for wanting it may not be great, but if it was achieved the outcome would still be good and many would benefit from this including myself, even if I didn’t care about the others.

I also think there is a big difference between the different factors that can make a person selfish. In terms of self preservation humans become very selfish indeed, the survival instinct is extremely selfish, but understandably so otherwise it simply wouldn’t work.

When greed is the source of being selfish it usually implies either taking something from someone else or preventing them from fulfilling a need even if their need is morally greater than yours.

If I am a major share holder in a big company and I want a bigger return on my investment often companies will lay off staff and double the workload of those who remain. I would technically be fine if the company made the same amount of money as the previous year, but I want more and don’t really care about the way this happens. My greed is making me selfish, my greed will drive the company to ruin and impact the lives of many people, but if I sell my stock will it’s still up and then move on to the next company I am making a profit. This type of selfish greed is driving the world onto the brink of catastrophe.

Greed can make people act in a selfish manner, people will hurt others, even kill them.

To be fair I think you and I are talking about the same thing but just view the problem from different angles so I would definitely say that being selfish is a problem, but my point is that we should be looking at what makes people selfish. Take away the root cause and you take away the symptom.

I enjoyed your post and I think it made some excellent points.

K

I serve the Force, The Universal Spirit. By doing so, We are able to help others in their struggles. Be it physical help, spiritual guidence, or maybe life council.... Sometimes, there are events that cause us to physically defend. We, as jedi, should be all of these. Guardian, friend, counselor, priest, diplomat.
We should strive to live a life of UNSELFISH LOVE. Everyone can understand the healing and good that comes from kindness,compassion,caring,giving, and harmlessness. Those are the virtues of Unselfish Love- the things that really matter. They are also the utlimate keys of returning to and being in harmony with the Force.
We should love all. I love you brother, I'd like to live in peace with you, and have you love me too, regardless of what we believe or don't believe. As long as we don't hurt each other, and we help each other when in need, who cares what "beliefs" we have-religious,political,moral,or whatever. I believe that is what is most important, because I know that Unselfish Love is ALWAYS beneficial. That is one of my beliefs, and I think it's something we should be able to univerally agree upon. I can. Can you? Will you? What can it hurt? Nothing. What can it help? A great many things, like peace and kindness. So if you do not believe the ideas I put forth, I hope it will not matter to you that I do- as long as I am a Loving, Kind-acting, Caring-thinking, harmless person. Simlarly, what matters to me about you, or anyone else, is not really what you think or believe, what religion you belong to, or if you're an atheist, but how you conduct yourself. What matters to me is whether or not you are a Loving, Kind-acting,Caring-thinking,harmless person. Unfortunately, a person's beliefs do greatly influence how they think and act though.
While I'm on the subject of belief, I want to take a closer look at it: I think that regardless of whether or not you believe it, your beliefs control your destiny, so they need to be closely scrutinized for what they create in your life. What you think and believe greatly affect wheter or not you are a saint, an evil monster, and everything in between (like a somewhat kind person, or a somewhat mean person).
It's a paradox in a way. It doesnt really matter what beliefs a person has, as long as the beliefs they have yield those virtues of unselfish love I just mentioned above. But their belief may yield those virtues, or yield harm and evil. Beliefs have a dominant and powerful effect on every aspect of our lives! People even kill over beliefs.
Religious beliefs are frequently based on faith, and they are most often something we are "taught to believe" early in life, by our family's religious beliefs and religion. Other beliefs are absorbed also, from our cultures.
People dont usually stop and think about the fact that something as seemingly "innocuous and insubstantial" as mere "beliefs", really have much effect on our lives. But they do- in fact, they do not only have tremendous effects on our lives, but they also control much of our destiny.
A belief itself is but an idea, it has no real substance. But we act based upon our beliefs. The actions we take because of our beliefs, have effects. And only the effects, the results, of those actions, are things we can see, feel, and grasp. This is very important to realize. Because the effects of our actions, which result from our beliefs, are precisely the things that can be used to determine the value,good or bad, of any given belief. For instance, if you are kind to me because you believe we are all brothers and sisters, your kind actions are something real, something we can both know is good. Kind actions are transcendent of language, culture, and whatever you or I maye believe is spiritual truth. Likewise, if you are cruel to me because of a belief, I will know it is a bad belief. These are obvious examples of course, and the results of many beliefs may not be so clear cut. Nevertheless, ALL beliefs subsequently generate their own "thoughts" and "actions", Good or Bad.
Unselfishly Loving is a belief I have. Caring about others, compassion, and kindness are qualities of Unselfish Love. If these are things we can all agree are good, then Unselfish Love can be used as a common, or Universal, measuring stick of goodness. And if Unselfish Love is a result of true spirituality. Such a measuring stick can be used to compare the manisfestations of any belief, and thus compare the value of any belief.
Ren, my friend. I have been on both ends of the spectrum. I lived in darkness for a long while, and did horrible things. Because I was SELFISH.
Now, I try to live by my belief in Unselfish Love. To be kind, and compassionate. To demonstrate these qualities in my every action and thought, all day, everyday. That is all.

What do you do for others?

I'm living down there next week with some a sith and two buddhas lol true story!

"the religion of atlantis"/"Different Points of View: Universal Consciousness and Separate Consciousness"


You are accomplished and brilliant without the confusing borrowing. be yourself you are much better than you think. and your stuff is WAY too wordy, when communicating make your point... leave the talking to those who have nothing to say.

May The Force guide you

What do you do for others?

I spend more than half my resources in investmensts in zimbabwe.

ren wrote:

Coryduran wrote: I think your definition of selfish is far too broad. Here is an actual definition of selfish

devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.

I don't think that in my owning a TV or a laptop is at all selfish. Living in an apartment or having clothes does not make me selfish. Nor does my cheap car and phone. Were these material possessions and my own lifestyle the only things I cared about, then yes I would be selfish.

You also do not need to give up all possessions to be selfless, again I feel like you have the definitions of these words wrong.

I'm not trying to rub anyone the wrong way, but I can't disagree more with what you're saying.

yet, you acquired this car, TV and laptop for selfish reasons. More specifically, your personal comfort and entertainment. You could have spent this resources feeding a couple of guys for life in some african dump. But you didn't. Your comfort and entertainment mattered more at the time. You worked your ass off, and you treated yourself as a result. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying it's OK, that you shouldn't feel like shit about it, but at the same time, at least, that you be honest with yourself instead of being in denial like most other people.

The fact that someone wants a comfortable life does not make them a selfish individual though. By that reasoning the fact that I ate in the last 48 hours makes me a selfish individual. I would disagree. I feel like we all have selfish moments, without a doubt, there is selfishness inside of you, but that does not make you a selfish person. A karmic idea of the sums of our actions. If the sum of my actions is more selfish than selfless, than yes you could call me a selfish individual, but I do not feel that this is the case. Having a few moments of selfishness in a life full of selflessness does not make you selfish.

I'm not in denial about having done selfish acts, but if you claim that I am a selfish person, I would deny that any time.