Official Notice of Resignation

  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
6 years 1 week ago #318769 by
Replied by on topic Official Notice of Resignation
FFS

Tella will go where he is needed , he will take his spirit and love with him , you have lost a very bright and enlightenend soul , be it that he is a little tight assed but you need to be to stay pure sometimes , i see that , but he has done nothing more than pour his heart out in this Temple and given more than most of you did , so stop bitching and trying to find validation for your own petty arguments.

Please be Jedi , or stop saying you are Jedi , either way , stop chasing away people that love being a Jedi more than anything else in their lives, its so disheartening.

Be a Jedi.
The topic has been locked.
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
6 years 1 week ago - 6 years 1 week ago #318803 by
Replied by on topic Official Notice of Resignation

Senan wrote: Personal opinions aside, Tellahane has given us some things to discuss and ponder. We can discuss the ideas without involving him any further.

I hear what you both are saying, Kyrin and Obi. We should all be held to the same standards and that includes the contents of the original post. What I’m really looking for is an honest conversation without too much emotion. We should be able to consider what we can learn from Tellahane’s experience and our own interactions with him in order to inform how we act toward one another in the future.

Addition: Let’s also consider that some people are trying to move forward in a productive manner, specifically our Pastor, Rosalyn. You can disagree with her opinion of Tellahane or the treatment he deserves, but she has earned her position and deserves the respect that comes with it. Please get back to discussing the ideas and not criticizing an individual.



I dont believe anyone here has disrespected Ros? Her idea that this was a thank you thread was challenged, nothing more. Do you feel differently?

What things (ideas) exactly do you feel Tellahane has given us to discuss and ponder? I see the decisions that Tellahane made and the attachments he chose to embrace as a result of his own doing and in that context, Serenity, I dont believe anyone "Chased him away". He chose to be the Jedi that he became and that is no ones responsibility but his, despite his assertion that others were responsible. And I don't see his proclivity for meltdown as impetus for change in this place.

His lack of ability to accept others as they are is what I perceive to be the incentive that drove him away, not any action by other members of this temple. So in light of that I see nothing to discuss and no reason to evaluate behaviour beyond what we already currently do as students of this place. I hope that in leaving this place Tellahane can find the strength of character to realize his mistakes and grow as a result. Maybe he will get the experience he needs out in the world that will show him new insights so he can return one day and better integrate without allowing it to tear him down as it did. I don't know but I hope that for him.

In the mean time I see no reason to not continue as normal and I see no reason to discuss the potential to implement some authoritarian rule over this place in the wake of his leaving. Do you perceive things differently?
Last edit: 6 years 1 week ago by .
The topic has been locked.
More
6 years 1 week ago - 6 years 1 week ago #318815 by Jhannuzs Ian
Thank you Tom

That time, you show me "a river"
then I activated
my wisdom

Inner harmony flowing

.
♪ ♫ ♪
.
Jedi Master: Rosalyn J
.
Focus, discipline, integriteit, kennis en licht
.
.
My code:
The Force is all, I choose my Focus
Life includes suffering, I am Resilient
The Force include my imagination, I extract Wisdom and Harmony
Life includes adversity, I obtain Knowledge
I respect your Life, lets revitalize our Force while breathing
.
.
Last edit: 6 years 1 week ago by Jhannuzs Ian.
The topic has been locked.
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
6 years 1 week ago #318816 by
Replied by on topic Official Notice of Resignation
I can't say I know Tom well but I understand where he is coming from. Best of luck to him.
The topic has been locked.
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
6 years 1 week ago #318841 by
Replied by on topic Official Notice of Resignation
Apologies in advance for separating your post, Kyrin. I'm not trying to cherry pick quotes. I just want to address each part clearly.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: I dont believe anyone here has disrespected Ros? Her idea that this was a thank you thread was challenged, nothing more. Do you feel differently?


This is a matter of perspective. Whether disrespect was intended or not, Rosalyn believes (I think) that she was trying to keep this thread moving forward in a positive manner. It is true that her words could be understood to mean that nobody should be saying anything negative about Tellahane or that she was trying to censor people's honest opinions of him, but I don't believe that was her intention. Seeing someone leave in the manner that he did has been difficult for some of us who worked closely with him, and my impression of her post was that she would rather not harp on the negative when he is already gone and there is little any of us can do to change that. Then again, I'm not Rosalyn, so I might be way off.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: What things (ideas) exactly do you feel Tellahane has given us to discuss and ponder? I see the decisions that Tellahane made and the attachments he chose to embrace as a result of his own doing and in that context, Serenity, I dont believe anyone "Chased him away". He chose to be the Jedi that he became and that is no ones responsibility but his, despite his assertion that others were responsible. And I don't see his proclivity for meltdown as impetus for change in this place.


I don't necessarily see his departure as reason to make wholesale changes here either, but what he has caused me to ponder and wish to discuss is whether factors leading up to his departure were unique to Tellahane, or part of a common experience many people are having here. Are his frustrations his alone, or are we creating an environment that breeds frustration in general?You are correct that he made his own choices and picked his own battles. It could be easily said that his understanding of what it means to be Jedi does not mesh well with TOTJO and he will be more comfortable elsewhere. That doesn't negate the fact that he still offered his services freely and put a ton of time and effort into serving this Temple in the way he thought best. Whether we "chased him out" or not, that is how he feels. It is important to me to try to understand why he feels this way so we can recognize what might be motivating those feelings in others as well. That includes myself.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: His lack of ability to accept others as they are is what I perceive to be the incentive that drove him away, not any action by other members of this temple. So in light of that I see nothing to discuss and no reason to evaluate behaviour beyond what we already currently do as students of this place. I hope that in leaving this place Tellahane can find the strength of character to realize his mistakes and grow as a result. Maybe he will get the experience he needs out in the world that will show him new insights so he can return one day and better integrate without allowing it to tear him down as it did. I don't know but I hope that for him.


The issue I take with this approach, and I say this as respectfully as someone who disagrees can, is that you are saying he has made mistakes, or that it is his inability to accept others that drove him to leave. His inability to accept others could easily be translated as his inability to accept you, Kyrin, for who you are. He may have judged you completely wrong in your eyes and the eyes of others, but still other observers may completely agree with his assessment of people here. I don't believe any one of us can claim Tellahane made "mistakes" without also accepting that this is strictly our own opinion. In the same way, Tellahane blaming the membership for his frustrations is also an opinion, and we don't have to agree with it. I believe he made the choices he made and took actions that he felt were appropriate. Whether those were mistakes or not would ultimately be up to him to decide.


Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: In the mean time I see no reason to not continue as normal and I see no reason to discuss the potential to implement some authoritarian rule over this place in the wake of his leaving. Do you perceive things differently?


It is not my intention to impose any sort of authoritarian rule, and I like to think that a lot of the changes we are currently considering were being considered long before this happened. His departure simply prompted me to address it publicly again. We may or may not decide to change anything, but we need to work together to define a community "normal" rather than continuing to operate under every individual's idea of "normal". There has to be some consensus about the most basic standards of behavior and expectations for participation here. Otherwise this is not a Temple for Jedi, but simply an internet place to argue.

I hope this helps, and I fully expect you to ask more questions or challenge these responses as well ;)
The topic has been locked.
More
6 years 1 week ago - 6 years 1 week ago #318845 by OB1Shinobi
NVM: i said i was done posting here and i will stick to that.

People are complicated.
Last edit: 6 years 1 week ago by OB1Shinobi.
The following user(s) said Thank You:
The topic has been locked.
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
6 years 1 week ago #318870 by
Replied by on topic Official Notice of Resignation
LOL I like where this is going!

Senan your next! (just kidding, Ill reply later in a more reasoned manner but this is fun!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZQEzesQIUk
The topic has been locked.
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
6 years 1 week ago #318932 by
Replied by on topic Official Notice of Resignation

Senan wrote: This is a matter of perspective. Whether disrespect was intended or not, Rosalyn believes (I think) that she was trying to keep this thread moving forward in a positive manner.


It’s not a matter of perspective though because I’m telling you straight up, at least in my case, that no disrespect was intended. At that point it’s up to you to believe me or not. If you don’t believe me then I think we have a deeper issue here. But I choose to believe you do accept that so I’ll move on.

The reason I said something was because Ros overstepped her bounds in trying to dictate the direction of this thread. Simple as that. I don’t see how you can interpret her comments any differently than that? She does not get to decide the positivity or negativity factor of any thread because that is what is subjective.

My experience with Tellahane is different than hers and my opinions are different. No one gets to demand that I say something about someone that I feel is not true or to keep quiet when I feel something should be said, especially on a publically posted thread. Tellahane could have just as easily posted that to council chamber and left quietly. He chose not to do this so his intentions were clear. He wanted one last shot and that just will not stand unanswered.

Some people want to glaze over the thread and pretend there is no issue. To some that may be positive but it’s not productive. And to me unproductive is also not positive, its’s a waste of time. To me positive and productive input is to address the issue and talk about the guts of what went wrong. And, yes, it may get ugly but the goal is positive growth.



Senan wrote: I don't necessarily see his departure as reason to make wholesale changes here either, but what he has caused me to ponder and wish to discuss is whether factors leading up to his departure were unique to Tellahane, or part of a common experience many people are having here. Are his frustrations his alone, or are we creating an environment that breeds frustration in general?You are correct that he made his own choices and picked his own battles. It could be easily said that his understanding of what it means to be Jedi does not mesh well with TOTJO and he will be more comfortable elsewhere. That doesn't negate the fact that he still offered his services freely and put a ton of time and effort into serving this Temple in the way he thought best. Whether we "chased him out" or not, that is how he feels. It is important to me to try to understand why he feels this way so we can recognize what might be motivating those feelings in others as well. That includes myself.


Have you come to any conclusions concerning your questions here?

Were the factors that led to his departure unique to him or were they a common experience that we are creating? Have you been able to determine exactly what those “factors” are and if they are common, how are we creating them?

I’m not trying to negate any of the good work that Tellahane did here. But there is a difference between frustration and challenge. It is a choice each of us have to make. If you’re not right with the game the game will consume you, just like we have discussed with nature. I think he had an incorrect attitude in his approach to his interactions here. He and I had several conversations behind closed doors and he would ask me what suggestions I would give to change things. I would give him a myriad of good ideas and he would immediately shoot each one down without consideration. That is not the way to move forward if you’re not willing to even consider a different way of doing things.

Besides that I think there is WAAAAY to much focus on the few negative things here and incredibly little focus on the good things. Every single day this place gets new people in and dozens of journals are written in and amazing interactions are going on every day between mentors and students and awesome conversations are happening and the site gets new features and upgrades all the time and there’s a study hall now and a cantina and friends are being made and people are learning about themselves every single day here!!! What about those things?? Why do we never talk about those? All we ever talk about is the negative. If what you focus on is bad stuff all you will ever get back is bad stuff. This is what happened to Tellahane. His need to control his world ate him alive. I say just let it go and let people be who they are supposed to be and revel in the awesome and amazing things happening here every day!

Sure we need to also look at the bad stuff as well, but why let it consume us? Just let it go man. Nothing is really ever under our control, so let it go and be what it’s supposed to be – an opportunity for challenge and growth, not a negative beasty that eats your socks every day so you can’t go out and play in the snow!


Senan wrote: His inability to accept others could easily be translated as his inability to accept you, Kyrin, for who you are. He may have judged you completely wrong in your eyes and the eyes of others, but still other observers may completely agree with his assessment of people here. I don't believe any one of us can claim Tellahane made "mistakes" without also accepting that this is strictly our own opinion. In the same way, Tellahane blaming the membership for his frustrations is also an opinion, and we don't have to agree with it. I believe he made the choices he made and took actions that he felt were appropriate. Whether those were mistakes or not would ultimately be up to him to decide.


You’re right, that is my opinion. As much as possible I try to only speak for myself. I don’t pretend to try and speak for others. I can claim he made mistakes because I perceive that he did. You don’t know all of our interactions but I describe one above about the suggestions. I think it was a mistake for him to ask for suggestions and then not even consider them when I presented them. I have been a VP of a real life pagan volunteer 501c3 for nearly 10 years now and believe me in my time there I have seen it all. The issues here are nothing compared to some of the crap Ive had to deal with. But that sort of experience that I can offer just gets written off by guys like Tellehane because it threatened his sense of authority here. He could not take suggestions from a “subordinate”. He challenged me to come up with better ways of doing things, thinking that would stop me, but then when I called the bluff and provided them he balked.



Senan wrote: We may or may not decide to change anything, but we need to work together to define a community "normal" rather than continuing to operate under every individual's idea of "normal". There has to be some consensus about the most basic standards of behavior and expectations for participation here. Otherwise this is not a Temple for Jedi, but simply an internet place to argue.


As I said above, sure arguments happen but that seems to get way more attention than anything else around here and that is sad. I’m not sure what you mean by “normal”? Are we currently abnormal in some way? Do arguments and misunderstandings and hurt feelings and anger never happen in the real world?

I think this place is just as normal as any place else. The difference is it’s a place to be normal and be safe because it’s moderated and because (in theory) conflict is supposed to be mediated and resolved here. This place and the conflict that ensues is the way we learn to deal with real life conflict out in the real world and be more effective at resolving it. You and I have been working on that very thing! Better conflict resolution here leads to better conflict resolution in every aspect of life. But if we cant practice it here how do we learn? The trick is to not take it so personally but see it as an opportunity. Not encourage it but deal with it as a necessary part of the function of this place.

That’s how I see it anyway.
The topic has been locked.
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
6 years 1 week ago #318943 by
Replied by on topic Official Notice of Resignation
This is the type of dialogue I truly enjoy, Kyrin. I respect that you can question me and defend your own arguments, but still recognize the positive things this Temple offers. We've got similar goals here, and if we can continue to communicate this way, we just might find the places we agree.

For one, I think we agree that there is way too much focus on the negativity and people tend to jump to offense rather than actually reading the words and digesting them without emotion. We're also recognizing that we both are speaking from our own experience and offering our opinions based on that. You are right to point out that I don't know all of the private interactions you had with Tellahane, so it is unfair of me to judge your opinion of him based only on my interactions with him.

I'm also glad that you still recognize the good that he did while he was here even while answering his criticism of the membership here. It shows me that you are considering his arguments before answering them.

To answer your specific question, I have discovered that it isn't only Tellahane who has become frustrated, but each Councillor or officer I've spoken with has their own reasons. Some of us feel overworked or under appreciated. Some of us feel like we don't have clear instructions about how to complete our duties. Some of us feel like certain members here take advantage of this place and use it for their own benefit rather than being a part of the community. And some of us just don't want to deal in negativity anymore. All of us agree that communication needs to be better among everyone.

I'm also hearing the complaints from members like yourself and others that are honestly pretty similar. People want clearly defined rules and expectations, less negativity, more communication, and to feel listened to.

There is common ground here that we can all work from together. First, though, we need to get past the adversarial relationship and realize that we can be a team in this. It will take some uncomfortable conversations (like some of this thread and the Ramblings thread), but I see progress and I still have hope that we can get to a place where these instances become small hiccups rather than full on train wrecks.
The topic has been locked.
More
6 years 1 week ago #318953 by Tellahane

Senan wrote: You are right to point out that I don't know all of the private interactions you had with Tellahane, so it is unfair of me to judge your opinion of him based only on my interactions with him.

Apparently I don't either, because out of the maybe 4 pm exchanges we had, which was just one exchange in general, I didn't see anything negative in it...There was some actual explanation and communication back and forth, no attacking, no jumping to conclusions, maybe a few assumptions but nothing as grand as I've seen in this thread. I was impressed by it honestly.

[hr]

I was going to leave this entire thread alone as it wasn't really my responsibility anymore but I feel as though two members of the temple did not interpret it as I intended, so I will give the opportunity here, if you have questions for me about my intent, purpose, or anything I've said in this OP, ask it of me as bluntly as you would like right here, right now. The biggest advantage you have of asking me now is I'm not bound by council position or rules anymore, though I will still respect council privacy, I have no more fear in how or what I say, other then to be honest about my personal views and intent, without having to worry about backlash or representation of council. You want to see true honesty, please, ask away.

[hr]

To everyone else, I very much appreciate all the posts, and to answer a common question that came up to me privately, no I'm not at this moment heading to any other community at this time, and I'm taking this opportunity to revisit my own holocron, but also touching it up and doing some more writing, kind of a version two, but only after I've taken some time to clear the air so to speak. I'm still debating on whether I'm going to continue my video series I started some time ago but never had time to finish or set it aside for awhile. Outside of that I'm just working on me.
The following user(s) said Thank You: , , ,
The topic has been locked.
Moderators: ZerokevlarVerheilenChaotishRabeRiniTavi