dark vs light vs my confusion

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6 years 7 months ago #296711 by
Replied by on topic dark vs light vs my confusion
Ooo, another new word: what's Je'daii?

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6 years 7 months ago #296712 by
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ReallyRiver wrote: Ooo, another new word: what's Je'daii?


An older word in the Star Wars Mythos for Jedi. Twas a different order, embraced both sides of the Force as just THE Force. Then the great schism happened (I believe after the discovery and practise of Sith Alchemy) that caused them to divide. Now those that follow Je'daii philosophy call themselves Grey Jedi (or at least more often than not).

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6 years 7 months ago #296721 by
Replied by on topic dark vs light vs my confusion

Arisaig wrote:

ReallyRiver wrote: Ooo, another new word: what's Je'daii?


An older word in the Star Wars Mythos for Jedi. Twas a different order, embraced both sides of the Force as just THE Force. Then the great schism happened (I believe after the discovery and practise of Sith Alchemy) that caused them to divide. Now those that follow Je'daii philosophy call themselves Grey Jedi (or at least more often than not).


12pts to Gryffindor!

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6 years 7 months ago #296738 by
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Brick wrote: Edit: I also think that the Jedi ideal is slightly harder to live up to, given that human nature is prone to passionate, irrational responses


No... Passionate, Irrational responses are not "Sith".

First, passion is really only the beginning of the Sith path. It's the tool that Sith use to strip away all the nonsense. Once you are totally honest with yourself about your passion, then you begin to see yourself as whom you really are. "Oh, I really do love X." And, "Oh, I really am lying to myself about Y." This is the starting line. The race begins once you take the first step as a passionate, honest being. That world, as Snowy remarks, is scary as hell. Do you think that is easier than being self-righteous? No way. I think many Jedi work very hard to cover up their own s***. Isn't the whole Jedi path one big story we tell ourselves? The Monomyth? Jedi tend to romanticize because our minds cannot comprehend that level of truth on a mundane plane of existence. So, it's a careful balance.

Irrational? Sith are not irrational... Even in the fiction, tell me one instance where a Sith acted irrationally. Drunk with power? Maybe.. but, always intelligent, always thought out. I know not ONE Sith in Sith Realism that acts irrationally. Help me understand where that came from.

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6 years 7 months ago #296748 by
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Connor L. wrote: Once you are totally honest with yourself about your passion, then you begin to see yourself as whom you really are. "Oh, I really do love X." And, "Oh, I really am lying to myself about Y." This is the starting line. The race begins once you take the first step as a passionate, honest being.


I'm not understanding what makes this Sith, rather than Jedi or both. I would think this sort of self examination is necessary for anyone wanting to make a significant and lasting change in themselves...?

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6 years 7 months ago #296752 by
Replied by on topic dark vs light vs my confusion
To me it feels like this thread might be starting to get a bit heated. And it feels like maybe some of the heat is coming from words: both word choice and judgements about words. Well, I guess I mean denotations and connotations.

It seems this thread has touched an intense and personal topic for some folk; I think it'd stay more friendly if we thought about word choice and also, if we're using a personal connotation about a word that may not be intended.

But also! Hey! Is this maybe the difference between Jedi and Sith? A Jedi might be like "hm, maybe I'll choose a word that doesn't carry as much negative connotation" and a Sith is like "I used a word, it's just a word, I can't help how you define it for yourself"?

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6 years 7 months ago #296756 by Brick
Replied by Brick on topic dark vs light vs my confusion

Connor L. wrote: I know not ONE Sith in Sith Realism that acts irrationally. Help me understand where that came from.


Perhaps 'irrational' was the wrong word. As you say, Sith do thinks things through, but I still always see a sense of 'speed' in Sith response that has the potential be too hastily made if they are not careful

You yourself talk about how 'the race' begins. Snowy talks about what occurs once you've 'fallen' into the deepest part of yourself and 'jumping into the chasm'. I like to think that a Jedi tries to climb (possibly abseil) down the chasm with ropes and picks :laugh:

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6 years 7 months ago #296758 by
Replied by on topic dark vs light vs my confusion
It isn't merely Sith. You are right. It is the beginning of many paths, especially LHP (left hand).

But, the Jedi path, while it SHOULD begin with this, does not in many cases. Right now, the Jedi path serves a lot of functions: as a shelter for the weak and damaged, as a spiritual journey, as a scholarly journey, as a moral philosophy and pedagogical journey.

The first category, the weak and damaged, come to the Jedi path because of the pain they've felt elsewhere. It's like Quasimodo bursting into the halls of Notre Dame shouting "Sanctuary! Sanctuary!". There is no place there for self-examination. And, such people probably shouldn't be walking a disciplined path. If somebody is truly hurting and they come here for healing, they should be comfortable just hanging around and getting the help/attention they need. Nothing wrong with that. But, so often, they are encouraged to begin studying the IP. Which begins with the Campbell Power of Myth. What does this do for somebody in pain? I'm not sure it does anything.

My point is that those who aren't ready to really begin training on the Jedi path have a lot of work to do. But, because of the way we are set up, we allow those who aren't ready to begin the work... often to their detriment.

I came to the Jedi path when I was hurting. The training should have waited until I worked through those basic emotional issues. I had to spend a lot of time undoing a lot of badly learned behaviors because I started my training too early in my maturity process. Does that make sense?

What I'm saying is that the current Jedi path does not include this brazen self-examination. It begins with head knowledge and rote memorization.

The current Sith path asks you only to be honest with yourself at first. And, that's before you are even allowed to begin training.

Self-examination is the beginning. But, some aren't ready for the beginning... yet, they begin anyway.

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6 years 7 months ago #296764 by
Replied by on topic dark vs light vs my confusion

Brick wrote:

Connor L. wrote: I know not ONE Sith in Sith Realism that acts irrationally. Help me understand where that came from.


Perhaps 'irrational' was the wrong word. As you say, Sith do thinks things through, but I still always see a sense of 'speed' in Sith response that has the potential be too hastily made if they are not careful

You yourself talk about how 'the race' begins. Snowy talks about what occurs once you've 'fallen' into the deepest part of yourself and 'jumping into the chasm'. I like to think that a Jedi tries to climb (possibly abseil) down the chasm with ropes and picks :laugh:


For everything, there is a season. Sometimes, we should carefully go down the chasm. Sometimes, we should jump.

A wise Jedi and a wise Sith should know when both are appropriate.

As for the speed thing... as many Sith will admit, social convention is only useful when it is useful. ;) I have no lies about that. However, I still use social conventions. Maybe this will out me... but, when I'm nice to you it's for a reason. Nobody is nice just because. That is one of the lies "nice" people tell themselves. They say: "Oh, I'm nice to everybody, regardless." It's a lie. You're not nice to everybody. You're nice to those who deserve it. And, you're nice to those who will give you back tenfold.

The first is last and the last is first.
The meek shall inherit the Earth.
Wash your servant's feet.
Give your employees a Christmas bonus and throw them a party.

Morality doesn't exist in a vacuum.

So, if a Sith doesn't play around with niceties, it's because they don't really serve a purpose. Or, perhaps the use of bluntness brings out honesty in the other party that could be held up by niceties and conventions.

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6 years 7 months ago - 6 years 7 months ago #296772 by
Replied by on topic dark vs light vs my confusion

Connor L. wrote:
My point is that those who aren't ready to really begin training on the Jedi path have a lot of work to do. But, because of the way we are set up, we allow those who aren't ready to begin the work... often to their detriment.

I came to the Jedi path when I was hurting. The training should have waited until I worked through those basic emotional issues. I had to spend a lot of time undoing a lot of badly learned behaviors because I started my training too early in my maturity process. Does that make sense?

What I'm saying is that the current Jedi path does not include this brazen self-examination. It begins with head knowledge and rote memorization.

The current Sith path asks you only to be honest with yourself at first. And, that's before you are even allowed to begin training.


Ah, ok, I understand. I guess for me self examination is kinda how I live. How I've always lived. It hadn't really occurred to me that others don't.

I agree it's pretty critical to know you before committing to a path (any path) that's going to change you. How else would you know what you want to change, and how, and why?

But I also think ... well, for me at least... it's ok to do some more "academic" learning (ie, Campbell) while doing self examination. It's a nice change of pace, it can lead to some more gentle revelations or maybe ones that aren't quite so painfully personal.

But yeah. Somehow, somewhere, knowledge of Self needs to be in the mix. I'm fully with ya there.
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