Word battle: Temple VS church

Rosalyn J wrote: Message Adder if you are serious. Might want to get a temple wide vote first though

Since when were we a democracy :dry:

tzb wrote:

Neaj Pa Bol wrote:

Arisaig wrote: Agreed with your statement, Goken. I dont see much of a difference. Either or works for me.

But for the sake of arguement, gonna pull in the definitions of both.

Church: a building used for public Christian worship.
"they came to church with me"
synonyms: place of worship, house of God, house of worship; cathedral, abbey, chapel, basilica; megachurch; synagogue, mosque


Temple: a building devoted to the worship, or regarded as the dwelling place, of a god or gods or other objects of religious reverence.
"at the altar of the temple"
synonyms: house of God, house of worship, shrine, sanctuary; church, cathedral, mosque, synagogue, shul; archaicfane

As we can see, the synonyms are almost identical, but the definitions differ greatly. One (church) seems more monotheistic. The other (temple) seems to be more open to polytheism or lack of a "God" figure such as religious objects.

May the Force guide this discussion.

And in reality you are right, there really is no difference, except in a persons own perception of what the words mean. From the dawn of time there has always been a word to differentiate a religions place of worship...

Hang on... it's literally right there in the definitions quoted. Church is a word for a CHRISTIAN place of worship. Last I checked, whilst Jedi may be Christian, this is not a Christian religion.

And WE are NOT a Christian Temple...

Zenchi wrote:

tzb wrote:

Neaj Pa Bol wrote:

Arisaig wrote: Agreed with your statement, Goken. I dont see much of a difference. Either or works for me.

But for the sake of arguement, gonna pull in the definitions of both.

Church: a building used for public Christian worship.
"they came to church with me"
synonyms: place of worship, house of God, house of worship; cathedral, abbey, chapel, basilica; megachurch; synagogue, mosque


Temple: a building devoted to the worship, or regarded as the dwelling place, of a god or gods or other objects of religious reverence.
"at the altar of the temple"
synonyms: house of God, house of worship, shrine, sanctuary; church, cathedral, mosque, synagogue, shul; archaicfane

As we can see, the synonyms are almost identical, but the definitions differ greatly. One (church) seems more monotheistic. The other (temple) seems to be more open to polytheism or lack of a "God" figure such as religious objects.

May the Force guide this discussion.

And in reality you are right, there really is no difference, except in a persons own perception of what the words mean. From the dawn of time there has always been a word to differentiate a religions place of worship...

Hang on... it's literally right there in the definitions quoted. Church is a word for a CHRISTIAN place of worship. Last I checked, whilst Jedi may be Christian, this is not a Christian religion.

And WE are NOT a Christian Temple...

"[the] synonyms are almost identical, but the definitions differ greatly"

And... he basically said that they're completely different? Not that there is no difference?

What members perceive as being the meaning of 'church' is actually irrelevant in the face of the actual meaning, which is that it is a Christian place of worship.

Edan wrote: What members perceive as being the meaning of 'church' is actually irrelevant in the face of the actual meaning, which is that it is a Christian place of worship.

That actually depends on the source. Just as "theory" means something different colloquially than it does in a specific setting, "church" means different things to different legal bodies. That's important when you're talking about legal rights of churches (which we still are under those definitions), and is important to note that it's different. While this Temple shares many similarities with Christianity, the anti-Christian sentiment that pervades it is proof enough that we are not a Christian "church" or temple in that definition of the word.

The context is important here - we declare ourselves to be an "international church". If the meaning of the word we're using varies depending on locale, then it's an ill-fitting word for an "international" body, particularly when every definition one can find specifically states it signifies a Christian place of worship.

What you call "anti-Christian sentiment", I call a resistance from non-Christians to be lumped into Christian terminology by Christians. And no, some underlying "anti-Christian sentiment" wouldn't be enough to distinguish us as a non-Christian religion when the top of every page describes us as a "Church", and when we have people here with Deacon, Priest and Bishop badges... that stuff makes quite a strong Christian first impression.

i agree with what many have stated. Temple is generic, and would thus be preferred.

In my opinion and observation,'Church' is usually a very christian word, same with how Synagogue is often a very jewish word (and everything that would be implied with such a word, be it one word or the other), and while a jedi can have personal abrahamic influences, im not entirely sure the national and international jedi communities should adopt a word which could construe certain things at a glance, which may or may not be true with regard to the jedi philosophies.

also, to reference the star wars elements of Jedi-ism (i can already hear some of you cringing and face-palming), it is canon to call a jedi 'church' a temple.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_temple

(also, as something of a similar yet different topic, is the jedi order symbol, and what it is (which may imply what it is connected to). IMO, the present jedi symbol, the 5 pointed stars, one upright and one inverse, implies ties to wicca and other european paganisms, rather than buddhism or taoism or other was asian philosophies, although i do respect wicca and buddhism and taoism)

These are all good arguments. However, there are places where "church" is used in a legalish sense to discuss religious organizations generically. The IRS code of the US is one such place where the word "church" is used in this capacity, though it is not properly defined. And, since we're a legal corporation incorporated in the US, I'd wager the term still applies to us whether or not you choose to use it for any specific meanings.

My reply to that is the same as last time:

tzb wrote: The context is important here - we declare ourselves to be an "international church". If the meaning of the word we're using varies depending on locale, then it's an ill-fitting word for an "international" body, particularly when every definition one can find specifically states it signifies a Christian place of worship.

*shrug*

I call a car, well, a car. Perhaps technically it is an 'automobile' and more specifically a 'sedan' or 'coup', but it's easiest to communicate by just calling it a car and going on with my life. It is generic, while still accurate, and people know what I'm describing when I say it without having to designate if it is a Ford or an Audi or a Toyota.

In my experience working with 501c3 charities, I understand the legal implications, but I don't think people come here and immediately look for our legal standing as a 'church' with the IRS. This is more a conversation about what we present ourselves as on the front; our 'welcome mat' if you will. We may be thinking a bit too hard about this one. 'Temple' is a word associated with 'Jedi'. 'Church' is not. 'Temple' does not have a direct association to any one religion. 'Church' does.