Word battle: Temple VS church

Church reminds me of Christianity and a temple is within.

The word Temple is just word for a religious building. If we in the west tend to associate it more with eastern religions, well, most temples in the west are churches, and most religions besides Christianity are eastern, to us. That's a consequence of the highly Christian societies we grow up in, and that's exactly why we need to be sensible about falling into "Christian habits" without considering how ill-fitting they may be to a religion trying to find its own identity. Because Church ALWAYS means Christian, so far as I can find from any definition of the word.

Such reliance on Christian words when there are Jedi words already seems to me an attempt to legitimise what we do here, almost guiltily clinging to stuff we know rather than embracing that which is uniquely Jedi. As you know I'm keen to remove the ultra Christian clerical titles, because a "Jedi Bishop" is just ludicrous. It is pompous in a way which is totally unbecoming of the core values of Jediism, it has connotations which are actively damaging to just how Jedi we can be. As does the word "church".

We are Jedi. We should be proud of that. We have a Temple in which we come together - not a church, because there is no crucifix hanging here. Ironically given the defensive comments made last year, we now seem to be letting the jackasses at Jedi Church influence how we define ourselves here, a place which is the antithesis of what they do. That is a very worrying trend.

I don't think we see the term 'church' too much here, and so reckon it is used for legal reasons, rather then historical or for self identification;

Br. John wrote: For US tax purposes we are considered a ministry, not a church or a temple. For US First Amendment issues we are considered a church which includes the terms cathedral, temple, tabernacle and so on.

But 'temple' has the highest visibility and self identification through the title because it is generally more in line with the Jedi theme I guess.

Not used for self identification? It is literally the second line of every single page of the site, now.

I agree virtually noone here would ever use that word for what we are. Hence the debate this has stirred up.

Even if in the US Constitution we are considered a church... internationally we wouldn't be, so that US-centric definition seems particularly daft directly alongside the word "International".

Yea, we just had a website update, and as you might know that tends to impact the templates. It could be too early to tell if its intended.... considering the wonky capitalization of it I'd have assumed not - but discussion is good!! I'd seen the word used before, but assumed it just needed to be seen here and there for those reasons, leaving the identity to the actual name.

Any ideas what to put instead??

Best Jedi Community in the Universe

How about "International Temple of Jediism" or "International Jedi Community" if we need to have that line at all? We never have before now...

A better use for it would be to advertise upcoming sermons, community events etc like the similar line on the old site.

Adder wrote: I don't think we see the term 'church' too much here, and so reckon it is used for legal reasons, rather then historical or for self identification;

Br. John wrote: For US tax purposes we are considered a ministry, not a church or a temple. For US First Amendment issues we are considered a church which includes the terms cathedral, temple, tabernacle and so on.

But 'temple' has the highest visibility and self identification through the title because it is generally more in line with the Jedi theme I guess.

Despite what the US First Amendment says, if we really are international (which is how this whole argument started) we need to consider the implications outside of the USA of the words we use.

tzb wrote: How about "International Temple of Jediism" or "International Jedi Community" if we need to have that line at all? We never have before now...

A better use for it would be to advertise upcoming sermons, community events etc like the similar line on the old site.

Or just "Temple of Jediism."

No church

No International

Just say it as it is. A Temple for people who practice Jediism.

As for the Christian bit. Until this temple gets rid of the other christian terms....Sermon, Pastor, Decon, Clergy..... Church is the least of christian concern.

Well yes... as I mentioned that in my earlier message. But I don't agree the introduction of MORE prominent Christian terminology is less of a problem than that which we've lived with for a decade.

Except that "Church" has been apart of TOTJO in one manner or another. Its just the subject of focus this week There's been no adding to the list so far.

And also your earlier post said ""International Temple of Jediism" I was saying to drop "International"