secrets...

I would disagree with one point, a rank doesnt make you trustworthy. Which is why anything posted anywhere on totjo should be done with the fact that this is the internet and anyone could read should be kept in mind.

Hiden areas are useful to some extent but... there are circumstances where when you hide things or place them where only certain ranks can read then you may be yourself judging others as unworthy,
I dont think your personal id or private conversations are anything to do with me.
But as a member of this Temple whats wrong with me seeing the forums from apprenticeship or knights?
Even if I cant join in because of rank I could learn something

If I go into a friend's house, and they have their bedroom closed, and their request is that it is off limits, I'm not going to start prodding them about holding secrets from me. Their request is respected because I trust that it is there for good reason.

If me and that person start getting close, maybe we start dating perhaps, then they're likely to invite me into their room, with all its probable messy-ness.

I look at TOTJO in the same manner. The request is there for a reason, and because those reasons do in fact have validity, I feel they should be respected and not used for a conspiracy dialogue. That would be insulting to a friend.

I don't see any conspiracy dialogue? ??

elizabeth wrote: I don't see any conspiracy dialogue? ??

Have another read over the thread title and the OP.

I might be more accurate to say "potential conspiracy dialogue" anyway, since the impression of these kinds of discussions tends to leave an impression of thoughts about scandals behind closed doors and the such.

Proteus wrote:

elizabeth wrote: I don't see any conspiracy dialogue? ??

Have another read over the thread title and the OP.

I might be more accurate to say "potential conspiracy dialogue" anyway, since the impression of these kinds of discussions tends to leave an impression of thoughts about scandals behind closed doors and the such.

I understand the OP thanks but feel free to explain what you think I have missed

Let's also not forget that this is a Temple and it is also a legally recognized church. As such, it is a sacred place to many members and it deserves the same reverence that a brick and mortar church or temple would. I wouldn't walk into a church and ask the priest about what kind of marital advice he gives to other couples in his congregation. I wouldn't ask people to share their confessions or their private prayers either. Churches have a public face and private interactions. We do too. People can post things they are comfortable with everyone knowing in the public sections. The restricted sections remain for valid and necessary functions of a church that go well beyond a simple internet forum.

Good point senan and for me, to make it clear I was talking about the forums NOT personal journals.

Although I dont see why the lesson bank isnt more open

I respect the privacy of journals why I wouldnt just randomly post

But there are areas that personally I dont see the need to hide away.

And not everyone here views this as a church (old, old argument)

Senan wrote: Let's also not forget that this is a Temple and it is also a legally recognized church. As such, it is a sacred place to many members and it deserves the same reverence that a brick and mortar church or temple would. I wouldn't walk into a church and ask the priest about what kind of marital advice he gives to other couples in his congregation. I wouldn't ask people to share their confessions or their private prayers either. Churches have a public face and private interactions. We do too. People can post things they are comfortable with everyone knowing in the public sections. The restricted sections remain for valid and necessary functions of a church that go well beyond a simple internet forum.

I think it has long been argued and answered even recently, that it is not fair to really compare this temple to a church, and not because of the temple != church or the brick and mortar vs 1's and 0's but rather that this temple needs to be what it is for us, the members who are here, and not for what someone else does in some other building for some other belief system.

Further more, journals are not private. I don't know why people keep saying they are, they aren't. There is rules that say please don't post in other peoples journals but they aren't private. Everyone can see the initiate journals, anyone who answers the questions to the IP can make their way to apprenticeship and see everyones apprenticeship journals. There are things I have done in my apprenticeship I don't dare put in a journal here at the temple, and for those private moments I sent them to loudzoo personally by email. Though I'm starting to wonder myself whether that information shouldn't be available here. It was a critical piece to who I am today after all.

The last time I brought up a question about why journals were visible to others of similar rank it was so that we can read them specifically and learn from other peoples points of views, that was the reasoning I received. If there needs to be a private connection or journal that people can use at the temple for the purpose of only to be reviewed by them and maybe a teaching master then it needs to be setup that way. As of now it is not.

So I don't see the argument as privacy to be terribly relevant. IF anyone has truly believed their journal to be private I hope they aren't horribly mistaken.

As for the overall purpose of this thread it was the idea of intentionally hiding information, or keeping information to yourself for any purpose, a fill in the blank reason, not specifically secrets or conspiracy theories, it could be anything from your chicken noodle recipe to why so and so was disciplined in some various reason. I wanted to see everyone's points of view, and more to the point where they draw their lines.

There are also posts that I have access to that I think would have better served being more in the open...it's not about hanky panky its good discussions don't end up migrating themselves out to the general membership where they could do some good as well.

I also want to add that this is also relevant to the discussion in the build up thread, where some people see that no information should be hidden and no one should be afraid to discuss any topic, and whether there are certain topics of discussion that should be held for a later part of our path here at the temple, or whether they should all be brought out into the open in general period.

Yeah I could have picked a better title then secrets, but I think that was the best way to describe it at the time of writing, and a good way to get people into the thread

Tellahane wrote:

Senan wrote: Let's also not forget that this is a Temple and it is also a legally recognized church. As such, it is a sacred place to many members and it deserves the same reverence that a brick and mortar church or temple would. I wouldn't walk into a church and ask the priest about what kind of marital advice he gives to other couples in his congregation. I wouldn't ask people to share their confessions or their private prayers either. Churches have a public face and private interactions. We do too. People can post things they are comfortable with everyone knowing in the public sections. The restricted sections remain for valid and necessary functions of a church that go well beyond a simple internet forum.

I think it has long been argued and answered even recently, that it is not fair to really compare this temple to a church, and not because of the temple != church or the brick and mortar vs 1's and 0's but rather that this temple needs to be what it is for us, the members who are here, and not for what someone else does in some other building for some other belief system.

I'm not comparing it to a church. I'm saying explicitly that it IS a church. It is legally recognized in the U.S. We have ministers here. It is absolutely fair to compare this to other churches because we are one. Just because some would choose to use it differently does not change this FACT. If anybody here, even one person, has an expectation of this Temple to act like a church, then it is necessary because this is what we say we are in the first five words of our homepage. I'm not saying it has to act like a Christian church, but there are standards that are accepted and must be met. Otherwise the legal recognition means nothing, and calling ourselves a church is inaccurate and misleading.

Being a church, as we are, there is some information that needs to be kept confidential either due to legal reasons or out of respect for the wishes of members here who treat this as a church. If people wish to share their secrets, there is nothing stopping them. Anyone can write anything in the public forum for us all to read, but we each have the right to decide what gets posted there.

My personal belief is that Jedi should be open, honest, and genuine. It is part of the integrity we speak of in the Doctrine. So, if you ask me something about myself or my studies or what is in my journals, I will likely tell you. If I can't, I'll give you a good reason. I'm not here to keep secrets. I believe our Council and most others here have similar mindsets. If you want to know something or you believe something is being kept from you, just ask. It's really that simple.