Are animals force senstive

Leah Starspectre wrote: I'm not arguing about whether or not the Force exists. It is there and exists in the same state for all matter and beings. I'm saying that animals don't recognize it and seek to understand it as we do. The aren't aware that there is a great unifying power that encompasses all things.

Animals are simply cog in the mechanism, doing as they have always done. Whereas humans are not only a cog, working as part of the mechanism, but we seek to understand how the mechanism works, who made it, where and when it began working. Animals don't interact with the Force as such, they are passive elements within it.

Yes but how does our cognition of it make us any less of a cog in the mechanism? Are you saying that just because we have a different conscious awareness of it than other creatures we have some ability to artificially manipulate it beyond what we would normally have?

Senan wrote: Here's another way of looking at it. For the sake of discussion, let's say that the Force is like fire.

Animals know by instinct and/or experience that fire is painful. The most common result is that they try to avoid it.

People also know by instinct and/or experience that fire is painful, but rather than simply avoid it, we seek to understand it. We try to discover where it comes from and how it behaves. We study it. We learn how to create fire and how to extinguish it. We do this so that we can try to manipulate it or use it to our advantage. We learn how to cook food with it, heat our homes and even forge metals.

The actual fire is no different to an animal or person, but how we interact with it is. The same can be said of the Force.

Interesting analogy. But what we are talking about here is not a physically manifest "substance" right? So you are suggesting that we can harness the power of The Force in some way and use it as a tool, but upon what do we use this tool? How do we gain a greater operational control of it than other animals and use it in other ways outside what we would normally see in animals?

Senan wrote: Here's another way of looking at it. For the sake of discussion, let's say that the Force is like fire.

Animals know by instinct and/or experience that fire is painful. The most common result is that they try to avoid it.

People also know by instinct and/or experience that fire is painful, but rather than simply avoid it, we seek to understand it. We try to discover where it comes from and how it behaves. We study it. We learn how to create fire and how to extinguish it. We do this so that we can try to manipulate it or use it to our advantage. We learn how to cook food with it, heat our homes and even forge metals.

The actual fire is no different to an animal or person, but how we interact with it is. The same can be said of the Force.

Yes, this is exactly it!

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Leah Starspectre wrote: I'm not arguing about whether or not the Force exists. It is there and exists in the same state for all matter and beings. I'm saying that animals don't recognize it and seek to understand it as we do. The aren't aware that there is a great unifying power that encompasses all things.

Animals are simply cog in the mechanism, doing as they have always done. Whereas humans are not only a cog, working as part of the mechanism, but we seek to understand how the mechanism works, who made it, where and when it began working. Animals don't interact with the Force as such, they are passive elements within it.

Yes but how does our cognition of it make us any less of a cog in the mechanism? Are you saying that just because we have a different conscious awareness of it than other creatures we have some ability to artificially manipulate it beyond what we would normally have?

It doesn't. We're still a cog doing our cog-things. The difference is that we're aware of the machine. That's the sentience I was talking about. Animals don't have that. They may be more sensitive to the cogs that works around them, or be better able to sense when something breaks, but their scope is limited to what happens to/around them.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Senan wrote: Here's another way of looking at it. For the sake of discussion, let's say that the Force is like fire.

Animals know by instinct and/or experience that fire is painful. The most common result is that they try to avoid it.

People also know by instinct and/or experience that fire is painful, but rather than simply avoid it, we seek to understand it. We try to discover where it comes from and how it behaves. We study it. We learn how to create fire and how to extinguish it. We do this so that we can try to manipulate it or use it to our advantage. We learn how to cook food with it, heat our homes and even forge metals.

The actual fire is no different to an animal or person, but how we interact with it is. The same can be said of the Force.

Interesting analogy. But what we are talking about here is not a physically manifest "substance" right? So you are suggesting that we can harness the power of The Force in some way and use it as a tool, but upon what do we use this tool? How do we gain a greater operational control of it than other animals and use it in other ways outside what we would normally see in animals?

Just like as was the case with fire, it may take us thousands of years to unlock the secrets of the Force. Maybe the Force is a physical substance that we have yet to learn how to measure or manipulate? Plasma did not exist as a state of matter until very recently. Now it is a household term. Maybe someday we'll learn how to become Force Ghosts like Qui-Gon did? Maybe we learn how to harness its waves the way we have with radio or learn to tune into the "Force Frequency" in order to see the future? Who knows?

What we do know is that animals do not behave this way. They do not learn purely for the sake of learning. There is no drive to advance the collective knowledge of the group unless it is necessary to stave off extinction. If the Force can be harnessed and used beyond what is simply sensed by all things, it is humans that will likely discover this first.

As of 1930 or so, nobody would have ever imagined that we could unleash massive amounts of energy by splitting something so tiny that it only existed in theory. Fifteen years later we were detonating atomic bombs. This curiosity is a human trait. We go far beyond the simple answers needed to survive and thrive.

That is the finer point I would put on the comparison between animals and people. As humans, we are constantly studying and exploring things, and not always in order to benefit from it. Sometimes we're just curious. It is this awareness of the unknown and our desire to make it known that sets us apart.

Powerful allies........ oh dang I gotta stop thinking in Yodavoice..

They have a unique view on the world, as do we, by virtue of their physical incarnation's particular attributes, both powers and limitations. Dogs have great smell, cats have huge stability of mind etc etc but I also wonder if they do not all view the passage of time differently... maybe not so much animals. But since I tend to classify everything as being of the Force, then yes they are sensitive to it in their own ways, and where that is different to us then it appears more or less sensitive. Beyond their perceptive apparatus, I'm not sure they abstract beyond things they encounter - but since they do seem to dream then who knows what sort of unreal things they encounter there. Especially if they watch Star Wars....

.. but I'm pretty sure my cat reads my mind about food, or at least has learnt my mannerisms so well it can associate the smallest changes in my behaviour enough to make accurate guesses.

Senan wrote: Just like as was the case with fire, it may take us thousands of years to unlock the secrets of the Force...

I think you have misconstrued the nature of the force.

The Force is something transcendent of physical reality and yet also immanent throughout. We do not draw power from it. It is quite the other way around as it draws power from us… from life itself. It cannot be shaped or molded or manipulated and we are bound by its grasp in the ultimate paradox of free will and fate. The Force is not physical. It is the very underlying essence of the fabric of space-time itself. There it intertwines these two aspects of our reality that can never be broken apart. We are free to choose our path but only within the will of The Force. Because in the end, it always determines our destiny. Any attempt to circumnavigate that only brings us closer to our fate.

We spend our lives pretending the shadows on the wall are our reality. We have mapped the entire electromagnetic spectrum from the universe itself down to the plank distance. We have quantified and qualified the forces of nature. We have harnessed these forces and have told ourselves that we are the masters of the universe. Somehow each day we convince ourselves that we are in control because we can manipulate these shadows of reality, change them or blend them and we delight in the power we tell ourselves we have.

But all the while we are fooling ourselves. The true power does not lie in harnessing the shadow and our manipulation of them is futile because in the end we are at the will and whim of a force of nature far greater than we can ever begin to imagine. It is our arrogance that blinds us to this fact. We fail to understand that we are not natures masters nor will we ever be. Only when we stop focusing on the shadows and truly seek The Force will we know the true power of creation. Only then will we appreciate that we are truly powerless.

The Force is a wanton lover, warm and yearning, caressing the deepest desire from your soul. The Force is a cruel paramour, tracing icy tendrils down your spine before encasing your throat in an icy grip of death. The Force delights in both ecstasy and misery without regard for either. To truly feel The Force is to reluctantly give yourself in gentle submission to the beauty of the rose while simultaneously experiencing the intoxicating pain of the thorn as it deeply pierces. It is not an experience that we can gain with knowledge or training or by exercising control. It is something we can only gain by letting go of consequences and allowing ourselves unbridled passion for the moment alone.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: I think you have misconstrued the nature of the force.

The Force is something transcendent of physical reality and yet also immanent throughout. We do not draw power from it. It is quite the other way around as it draws power from us… MORE

But how do we know any of this? How is your understanding of the Force more correct than mine or anyone else's? How have I misconstrued the true nature of the Force while you have properly construed it? These questions are not meant to be contentious. I am more curious about whether this interpretation of the Force is based solely on faith or if there is more to it.

It could stand to reason from your explanation then that animals can appear to be Force sensitive because they do not attempt to control or manipulate the Force, but the the Force instead acts on them and through them?

I happen to agree with much of your take on it, specifically that the Force is a universal underlying essence of all things and thus we are all connected, but my point is that people used to use mystical explanations for fire, or magnetism, or gravity, or eclipses. They were "magic" or created by the gods. We have since discovered that there are more accurate scientific explanations for these phenomenon. That doesn't have to take the wonder away from them, but it allows us to use them in ways that are beneficial to us.

I don't believe the Force is meant to be explained and controlled, or if it is even possible, but I'm also not naive enough to believe that someone else won't prove me wrong someday. I hope there are always people willing to seek these answers. I don't believe the scientists who try to understand the nature of the universe and/or the Force are necessarily arrogant. It was scientists that showed us we are not the center of the universe, after all.

Senan wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: I think you have misconstrued the nature of the force.

The Force is something transcendent of physical reality and yet also immanent throughout. We do not draw power from it. It is quite the other way around as it draws power from us… MORE

But how do we know any of this? How is your understanding of the Force more correct than mine or anyone else's? How have I misconstrued the true nature of the Force while you have properly construed it? These questions are not meant to be contentious. I am more curious about whether this interpretation of the Force is based solely on faith or if there is more to it.

As to how we know these things, it depends of your definition of “know”. But that is really an argument in itself. Let’s just assume that by “knowing” we mean the comprehension of a concept to the best ability that we are able in our limited capacity in this reality. So in that context would you agree that if "The Force" is an actual existent “thing” (i.e. a something that has properties) there has to also exist truth about its nature? And as well, those that have not found those truths, can have misconceptions about that nature? But as each Jedi individually “progresses” they will acquire experience through time and with enough effort will eventually come to find common components of that collection of singly discernible, universal truths about its nature? This would be the thing that binds all Jedi together, the search for that truth. These are truths that cannot be taught to a Jedi by any other, only revealed to each Jedi by The Force itself as they are able to fathom them.

Take a concept such as quantum mechanics compared to Newtonian physics for example. The quantum world is an underlying fabric of our Newtonian reality and to try to understand why it works will boggle the mind. This is also the nature of “The Force” in relation to the human condition. But the enigma in the search for the meaning of this relationship between The Force and humanity is where things get a bit paradoxical. Because the deeper we delve into its mysteries the more we begin to comprehend that its mysteries are not meant to be understood. This is the very mystery of existence. We ask ourselves why we are here and what is our purpose? But there are no answers for these questions. It is not meant to be understood. It’s the search that matters, not the knowledge. Like the Tao, the second you try to cast “The Force” into a role, as soon as you put a label on it, as soon as you name it and give it life by virtue of your investment you take away all its power and it becomes nothing more than an event - it is no longer a spiritual revelation, but simply a material occurrence. It’s the collapse of that quantum wave state into a finite position. “The Force” is not something to be observed or harnessed, it is just to be experienced.

I should apologize. My use of the word misconstrue was probably inappropriate. I think there are endless layers to “The Force”. How deeply down the rabbit hole one wants to delve is a decision each of us must make on our individual paths. Some will achieve more than others. It does not make anyone’s comprehension at any point in time wrong per say, maybe just less correct than it could be, if you will? And as we each struggle to define what that true nature is, we debate and discuss endlessly. And I’m not saying I have any answers either. None of us do, that is the paradox! LOL. This is just my personal and limited grasp of “The Force” that I have gleaned during my time in communion with it. And I think that is what it takes, a deliberate and dedicated unity, an intentional relationship with “The Force” but also a surrender to its power and mystery. When we realize we can know nothing is when our journey begins. Everything else is just preparation for that journey.

And as for the animal aspect to it. I think they manifest this better than any of us do because they don’t contemplate their place in the cosmos. They are natural born facilitators of the power because they accept it without question. They "just are" and they "just do" and that innocent surrender makes them very powerful in The Force! In fact they probably have mastery over powers we can not even imagine LOL!

Genoe Jhalam wrote: It is times like theese when animals such as my dog know when the force is swirling around us or when their is a great change within it

how do YOU know when the Force is "swirling around" or when there is a "great change within it"?

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humans have the ability to conceptualize things abstractly and "play with" them in our minds

we dont just experience fire, we think about fire when it isnt around and we imagine all the thousands of things we could do with fire

we separate fire into different properties like flame or light and heat

we ask others to think about fire with us and we compare our thoughts
we collect our ideas about fure and we build on them over time

thats what culture is

i think it was jestor who shared an article awhile back about researchers who believe that orcas have culture

i think Akkarin shared an article about crows who recognize "faces" and tell other crows "hey that guy standing over there is an &$$#o!€"

dolphins, catcaeans, elephants, primates, cephalopods, and some avians, have somepretty clever members among their ranks and it wont surprise me to learn that we aren the only ones with culture

but afaik we have the highest aptitude for abstract conceptualization of any species - we also have the ability to get stuck in our own heads and ideas, and most of us are also thoroughly domesticated and docilized, and are very far away from the limits of our perceptual capabilities

wild and semi wild animals (like cats that go outside at night) are way more perceptive than we are (even if less complex) for the simple reason their lives still depend on their ability to be aware of whats going on around them and even within them

dogs is a mixed barrel; ive known some dogs that were dumb as corn but ive known others who were smart and super alert as a general rule

more people would be more "force sensitive" if we would wake up a little bit and really focus on our senses more

novel experiences have a way of waking us up, so one of the best suggestions i could give for increasing Force sensitivity is to break out of routines and go do new things as often as possible

sounds completely unrelated but if you can remember this then youll eventually notice that youre more alert when youre experiencing something new or your on unfamiliar terrotory

steamboat28 wrote: Animals are often used as "predictors." Horses know when earthquakes are coming, dogs can be trained to see a seizure in advance, and cats are commonly thought to "perceive ghosts." Does that count?

That's because animals are much more in contact with nature than us, we lost that conection, animals feels the ground, the signs