Are animals force senstive

Leah Starspectre wrote:

tzb wrote: Humans are animals.

Yes.

But we are animals with a higher level of self-awareness and sentience.

As far as we know anyhow...

Can you be certain sentience and self-awareness are prerequisites for perceiving/being sensitive to the Force?

For me the Force is much more the space of instinct and intuition, beneath our internally constructed explanations for things, the cultural and societal structures which stand between us and a more direct experience of the living Force.

For me, other animals seem much more attuned to what I believe is essential to the Force than most humans. Much of my study has revolved around a closer study of nature and an acceptance of the underlying realities of life and death. These things don't seem to trouble most other animals.

Finally I don't believe humans are so far removed from other animals that our sensitivities and experiences differ vastly. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and all that.

Leah Starspectre wrote:

tzb wrote: Humans are animals.

Yes.

But we are animals with a higher level of self-awareness and sentience.

As far as we know anyhow...

I've got to disagree here.
We certainly are the most effective animals at verbal communication. Other animals make sounds, but we have developed language which has allowed us to collaborate and more efficiently survive. But some chimps have been using hand-crafted stone tools. Animals like beavers and ants have their own nesting rituals when they could very easily survive in different, perhaps more efficient ways. I consider those things signs of culture. Heck, the beavers might even have their own architectural theory given the complexity of their dams. What's more, wolf packs have complex social structures and mating rituals -- which I consider to be clear signs of culture. I think animals are generally much more complex than we give them credit for.

I'm not saying that animals are not complex. I'm saying that animals wouldn't have a metaphysical understanding of the Force as we do. They live in it and are a part of it. It's instinctual - I would also argue that what some would call "culture" or "architecture" in animals is simply instinct and survival.

Leah Starspectre wrote: I'm saying that animals wouldn't have a metaphysical understanding of the Force as we do. They live in it and are a part of it. It's instinctual...

What exactly is meant by our "metaphysical understanding of the force"? How is it not instinctual for us as well?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Leah Starspectre wrote: I'm saying that animals wouldn't have a metaphysical understanding of the Force as we do. They live in it and are a part of it. It's instinctual...

What exactly is meant by our "metaphysical understanding of the force"? How is it not instinctual for us as well?

Well, for some people, it is also instinctual in a way, but others question life (and thus, the Force) and our place within it. They look beyond what is immediately accessible through our senses - that's what I mean by metaphysical. The difference between us and animals (as far as science currently tell us) is that humans have the capacity for that kind of metaphysical thoughts, which animals don't.

Leah Starspectre wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Leah Starspectre wrote: I'm saying that animals wouldn't have a metaphysical understanding of the Force as we do. They live in it and are a part of it. It's instinctual...

What exactly is meant by our "metaphysical understanding of the force"? How is it not instinctual for us as well?

Well, for some people, it is also instinctual in a way, but others question life (and thus, the Force) and our place within it. They look beyond what is immediately accessible through our senses - that's what I mean by metaphysical. The difference between us and animals (as far as science currently tell us) is that humans have the capacity for that kind of metaphysical thoughts, which animals don't.

So the basic difference between humans and animals is that we as humans have the capacity to contemplate whether or not the force exists and if we determine it exists we can then contemplate what properties it possesses. Your saying animals would not have this ability? Even so, neither of those really has anything to do with how we interact with it though.

IF the force exists and IF it is an emergent power of every living then I would see no reason to believe animals would interact with it any way differently than humans would, right? These properties would take our physical senses out of the equation. Or would you suggest that maybe the difference comes in a misunderstanding we might have about The Force and its properties - i.e. what it is and how it operates?

I guess the first thing we need is an agreed upon definition of The Force. I would think that if it does exist and we can interact with it in some way we could learn some universal truth about it, would you agree?

I'm not arguing about whether or not the Force exists. It is there and exists in the same state for all matter and beings. I'm saying that animals don't recognize it and seek to understand it as we do. The aren't aware that there is a great unifying power that encompasses all things.

Animals are simply cog in the mechanism, doing as they have always done. Whereas humans are not only a cog, working as part of the mechanism, but we seek to understand how the mechanism works, who made it, where and when it began working. Animals don't interact with the Force as such, they are passive elements within it.

I don't think that seeking to understand it or questioning give us anything more than insight, it doesn't increase our ability to influence the Force or changes our role within. If the number 2 understood math, it would not change how math works. Humans aren't any more special in the universe than ants, they are just capable of fooling themselves into believing they are.

r3dleader wrote: I don't think that seeking to understand it or questioning give us anything more than insight, it doesn't increase our ability to influence the Force or changes our role within. If the number 2 understood math, it would not change how math works. Humans aren't any more special in the universe than ants, they are just capable of fooling themselves into believing they are.

I never said that we have a better ability to influence the Force. Only that we have the capacity to question it and seek better understanding of it. Animals don't ask themselves (as far as we know) "Who am I? What is my purpose? Why am I here?" We can recognize the Force and try to understand it, but we are subject to is, as are all beings.

Here's another way of looking at it. For the sake of discussion, let's say that the Force is like fire.

Animals know by instinct and/or experience that fire is painful. The most common result is that they try to avoid it.

People also know by instinct and/or experience that fire is painful, but rather than simply avoid it, we seek to understand it. We try to discover where it comes from and how it behaves. We study it. We learn how to create fire and how to extinguish it. We do this so that we can try to manipulate it or use it to our advantage. We learn how to cook food with it, heat our homes and even forge metals.

The actual fire is no different to an animal or person, but how we interact with it is. The same can be said of the Force.