White Privilege

So why would it benefit them to fix the education system?

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MAGNUS wrote: K-12 is more propaganda than learning.

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That. That right there is where we need to start.

E-3_4L_Teeter wrote:

MAGNUS wrote: K-12 is more propaganda than learning.

That. That right there is where we need to start.

Smart citizens are harder to control. I have a hard time believing the education system will get anything but worse for this reason.

Gotta watch its not incorrectly associated as the cause of behaviour, just as much we gotta watch it does not exist systematically or that systems do actively reduce or remove any type of discrimination.

Using the term 'privilege' seems to infer a systematic element of racism, and obviously 'white' makes it specific. I'd say its more accurate to just call it discrimination or racism, as I'm sure this concept of colour privilege is in all communities; black privilege existing within black communities, white privilege existing in white communities, etc etc.

That is if it actually is racism, and not association for some other reason, like if a group exhibits a certain behaviour, and the behaviour elicits a legitimate response unrelated to who is exhibiting it, then the response is not racist - but it could appear that way.

To some extent its probably entirely natural to feel at ease with 'familiar' and slightly less at ease with 'unfamiliar', but that seems minor compared to the natural reaction we'd have to the actual behaviour irregardless of those other factors ie, a familiar person pointing a gun at me will freak me out much more then an unfamiliar one reading a newspaper.

So as long as its an effort to remove discrimination then I support it, but if its being abused then it's really counterproductive to everyone including those abusing it IMO. Let the truth set you free!

That depends on the goals of the ones committing the abuses. Collectively we all get farther together than separated, but segregated groups, real or imagined, are easier to manipulate.

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Lightstrider wrote: Yeah this whole white privilege thing, making whites feel guilty, is just ridiculous and relates to Yabu's divide and conquer thread.

If the white privilege thing is meant to make white people feel guilty - it failed. White people feel if you work hard, you succeed. You reap what you sow. So I don't feel guilty when you make your own reality.

Of course, this is coming from a white woman. Tits make everyone's reality beautiful. :evil:

Sure, white privilege exists. More accurately, whites are more often treated fairly than nonwhites (in parts of the world where whites are the majority of the population). I think that's bound to happen in a part of the world where one specific race is the majority. Of course products will more often be marketed towards whites. They're the majority, the largest group, with the most amount of possible sales for any given product if it's marketed towards specific racial groups. White standards and preference for whites comes with the territory of being in a majority white country.

Now, if I went to South Korea, I doubt I'd see any white privilege. I'd probably be treated much the same as minority groups in America, by South Korean standards. It's to be expected. It's not that whites get all of these bonuses from the start of their life, it's that other groups face detriments. The way to solve the issue isn't "bring the whites down!", it's treating everyone the same way.

Problem is that a lot of people now think it's okay to say, for example, "You don't have the right to say anything about Black Lives Matter because you're white", or "You don't have the right to say anything about gender inequality because you're male". Or even more dreadfully, "You're wrong because you're cis white male scum". These kinds of arguments are fallacious at best and downright offensive/sexist/racist/morally repugnant at worst. And it's a growing trend.

Focusing on "white" privilege or "male" privilege does literally nothing to benefit anyone. The only possible good it could do is if it were used as a standard by which we treat all people, but that's not what groups that talk about white privilege usually try to do. More often than not, they take the stance that "X is oppressed in some way, and so the privileged whites/men should be brought down and oppressed in the name of equality!"

About "male" privilege, specifically. That's a load of bull if I ever heard it. No signing up for the draft, preference in divorce court, preference in child custody cases, statistically averaged shorter sentences for the same crimes, paid maternity leave (though paternity leave exists in some places, it's usually not as long as standard maternity leave), elevated status in the media (any sitcom, you've got a brilliant woman and a dumb-as-nails man), I could go on and on all day about how women have privilege. That's not to say that men don't have their own areas where they're preferred, but there's no reason to act like men have some huge privilege in every situation. That's simply not the case. There are inequalities on both sides which need to be solved, and as far as I'm concerned, anyone who says otherwise is either uneducated on the subject or is a member of the radical feminist movement (a sexist movement) sweeping the nation.

Instead of complaining about "white privilege" or any other kind of privilege, why not just treat everybody the same way and hold everybody to the same standards? That seems like the best option IMO.

And as individuals I have little doubt that happens most of the time. But it benefits those in power and the media that serves them to keep us divided and focused on these things. The only people who are served by the argument that we need to bring the privileged down are the ones propagating and reinforcing perceptions of privilege in the first place.

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thanks to those who have responded - i wrote a paper for sociology (it is a RESPONSE paper to a paper that another student wrote)

its over a thousand words and i dont really expect you guys to read it but I thought i would post it anyway

This is not perfectly edited but its a little better i think than my usual ramblings here

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My critique of the "White Privilege" movement

”White Privilege” is basically just complaining about the personal thoughts that individual people have in their individual heads: individual perception is something that we all have a right to, something that cuts both ways, and most importantly, is something that you are never going to be able to control in a nation as large and diverse as America.

Complaining about white privilege is much like complaining that gummy bears are more popular than jolly ranchers, or that the Cowboys are more popular than the Buccaneers, its a complaint about personal perception - its not focused on specific laws or policies. Where it does focus on tangibles, it does so in the most immature and useless way possible. Let me explain why this entire movement is absolutely childish and ineffective: if you don't like where a product is located in a grocery store, you go and talk to the manager of the store. If you want to see darker colored band aids, write a letter to band aid company! DUH BRO! Talk to the people who make the band aids man you don't have to break the internet with whiny self righteous finger pointing against an entire race of people.

you know what, I did a google search for "best selling dildos" you cant tell me that blacks arent represented in the commercial market.

To all the misguided but (maybe) well meaning social justice warriors out there: if you see something that should be changed, get off of YOUR ass and do something to change it - either start your own band aid company, or get a conversation going with the people who make the band aids, dont run around demanding some anonymous "privileged person" do it for you, complaining that they havent done it already. Youre the one who cares, you take the initiative to Write some emails and make some phone calls. Get your friends to talk write emails and make phone calls. Matter of fact, come talk to me and I'LL even write some emails and make some phone calls. I actually think its a good idea and something id be willing to get behind. But I am not going to feel bad that i havent already already done it. Thats just crazy.

Whining on the internet does not make you an activist, voicing a complaint is not at all the same thing as working for a solution. I am an activist, and have been for years - i have worked for the florida consumer action network and telefund fundraising corp, both organizations which promote racial, gender, and orientation equality, consumer rights and environmental protection.

The only thing that comes close to representing a solution to racial inequality is the admonition to “use your white privilege to promote equality”.

Which is a great idea, but youre missing two things. First, I already do that, and you talking down to me is not evidence that i am privileged but that you are -- not aware of everything that you should be aware of before coming at me with this kind of rhetoric.

The second, is that you need to take out the words “white privilege” and replace them with something like “personal sphere of influence”.

Lets compare two sentences:

Heres the first one: "All you white people need to be using your unfair WHITE PRIVILEGE to promote equality"

Heres the second one: "As responsible citizens, each of us should use our own personal spheres of influence to promote equality"

The difference between the two is astounding: first of all, everyone has a personal sphere of influence, regardless of race or economic status. And to speak of it like this makes us all responsible to a part of a unified movement to make the world better. It makes us all responsible for promoting equality and it puts us all on the same side, with the criteria for inclusion being what we do with our influence, not what race we were born into.

Understand: the white privilege campaign lumps all white people together in accordance to no criteria other than race – which is the very definition of racism – and it suggests that we are all equally guilty of inequalities of a racists society. Which is not the case.

Equality requires unity - If you want to promote equality then you need to promote unity, and attacking me with white privilege does not unify, it divides. PERIOD. You can tell me that I should just accept that I am privileged and superior and therefore responsible but I am always going to tell you to shove it. You are responsible for working towards whatever changes you think should happen, and if you want my help then you will kindly keep you finger out of my butt crack.

As soon as you start pointing your fingers to my butt crack, telling me that i am guilty of or responsible for fixing all of the injustices of the whole damn system, we are divided.

Not to mention that white privilege suggests that the success of every single successful white person is attributable more to the fact that they are white, than the fact that they worked hard to achieve their goals over time, and made their decisions carefully and responsibly. Which is extremely insulting as well as untrue. I guarantee you that I have to work hard and make smart decisions if I want to be successful, and that when I have failed to do this, it has resulted in a lot of suffering.

Last, the white privilege people are focused on the wrong part of the problem.

Simply speaking: the issue is not that one group has too much privilege, but that some groups don’t have enough. Your ficusing on the wrong thing

Going back to the band aids - are you complaining because the band aids in the store that "look white"?
Or are you complaining that there arent enough that look black?
Do you see the difference here?

Lest talk about the police and the economy: police definitely do kill more blacks than whites, and there are employers who would rather hire whites than blacks - ok so are you suggesting that cops should kill more white people and employers should stop hiring white people?

Or are you saying that police should not be allowed to use more violence than necessary to conduct an arrest and that they should only arrest people who are actually breaking the law, and that everyone who is willing to work should be able to find a job? Because I am totally with you on the second, but obviously I'm going to fight you to hell and back over the first. So think about what you want to accomplish here, learn how to isolate the actual problem, and work to bring people together in order to solve it.

As a nation, we dont need to reduce the privileges of those who have it, we need to increase privileges for those who dont have enough, which is what REAL civil rights activists have been working to accomplish for generations, and leads me to my final point.

Status and influence in America is determined more by money than any other single factor. If you really want to increase racial and social equality in America, the answer is in education and economic opportunity. It isnt band aids and it isnt white guilt. It is actually in the social, academic, political and economic success of minorities - one black man who owns and successfully runs his own company (and will be able to hire whoever he wants to) and one single black professor who affects literally thousands of students in her career, will do more for racial equality in america than all the finger pointing cyberbabies on tindr and reddit combined.

The existence of any higher form of privilege, rights, and quality of life sets the universal standard of living to that point because to believe otherwise is to believe that there are some in this world that deserve greater rights and quality of living than others. So white privilege is the standard by which all other systems of rights and quality of life will be judged. Yes it is a thing. It will be a thing as long as there are people who, because of the colour of their skin, do not have the same standards of living and rights. So yes the statement that it isn't about the privilege of white people but about the lack of privilege other races have is accurate and at the same time irrelevant. The absence of one thing can create another by simple act of comparison. It's really that simple.