When ‘Religious Liberty’ Meets The Flying Spaghetti Monster

Snowy Aftermath wrote: You realize that the entire point of the FSM is a mean-spirited parody of christianity, yes?

No. It's not meant to be mean-spirited, but to prove the point, as steamboat said, that not every idea is worth teaching in classrooms.

I have never encountered anything BUT hostility when it is brought up. It's the main reason I don't roll with vocal atheists anymore.

Pity. This is where our experiences differ the most. I identify as an atheist, but I don't agree with anti-theism. I'm also agnostic. I don't wish you harm nor do I have ill-intentions towards you. Hostility is encountered by many religions, but we don't say that ALL the adherents to them are bad, right?

There's far too much hate and hostility going on. Atheism has turned into anti-theists trying to make christians look like idiots for most of the community, and that's not cool.

As I've said before, we don't say that all of one type of person is bad just because your experiences have told you so. I used to be Catholic and I used to view Atheists as ever-angry, ever-hostile entities to avoid. I based much of my prejudice on what I was told and what I initially encountered. But, as my views changed over the years, I realized that I don't believe in any gods, and that made me an atheist. Did I go out of my way to tell people they were wrong for believing? Nope. Do I still disagree with people putting others down for their beliefs? You bet.

[hr]

carlos.martinez3 wrote: I think there is a small form involved. Good catch. I am familiar with doctrine and knowledge, I long to meet people who are excited about their beliefs. I do apologize if there was a harmful form of prejudice, never my intention.

It just seemed like you were generalizing instead of seeking to understand. I'm not knocking you for it, just asking for you to question your own biases.

There are many forms of pre judgment. I would hope the countless encounters ive had is not considered "pre" or a form of missing information. I would hope a organization built from a lot of defence could build as much as they possibly can. To me personally there are very few tools and organization. Ive searched for clergy, none, ive searched for some form of organization, leadership, very far and few. They exist, I hope, but I haven't found any yet. I haven't found a many of things so that doesn't say they don't exist.

My point wasn't to say that they were a "true" religion, as it were, but to question why you would base your opinion of the validity of a religion on "well wishing" and the like.

I accept the ideas and others but its hard for me personally to place this one in the same catagorie as others in my own path, is all. I try not to pre judge much but I Have been diligent. If there are any lights at the end of this tunnel I would LOVE to meet them. Honestly, I got a lot of serious questions I would ask over tea. There is a light grey and dark to every sect. I admit. Do I accept them most definatly! Valid? yes, to those who believe it and choose that path. To me , it seems like a publicity stunt most of the time or a cry for attention in which case it no longer is spiritual but a individuals cry for help or attention and in which case there are plenty of those in every religion.

Again, I don't fault you for your view, but ask that you take a more critical view of your biases and opinions. Are they some kind of publicity stunt? Are they really crying out for attention? Most likely not a publicity stunt, but I do think they were crying out for attention... to the issue and not for themselves. It just turns out that many people still support it because they believe in the value behind the mask of this "religion".

http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2016/04/14/judge-rules-church-of-the-flying-spaghetti-monster-isnt-a-real-religion-n2148599

If we based our view of what a religion is on a judge's ruling, Jediism would probably not stand for quite a lot of them. I agree with one of the comments made on that page...

"I am not comfortable with federal judges deeming what is and what is not a religion. While you may find FSMism totally silly and mocking, I have no problem with anyone who wants to [...] wear a colander on their head and call it religious headgear. If people can go around claiming that the earth is only 6,000 years old and some guy built a boat that had two of every creature on earth on it, (somehow two kangaroos from Australia magically airlifted themselves to Turkey) then a colander seems pretty sane to me."

Again, while I agree with the comment, I don't endorse criticizing someone's beliefs for the sake of pointing and laughing.

no one really believe in the fsm so its not a sincere religion

its good satire and it makes legitimate social commentary but this guy needs to shut his trap and do his time lol this kind of frivolous nonsense adds to the perception that inmates shouldnt be taken seriously when they speak out

There we are like minded Luth.

True Story, I never noticed how even in the smallest of things can lead to greater. The Force still puts me in my place so to speak. I'm OK with that. I see the big religions and give them full Jedi bounty but when small little un know un organized organizations come my inner voice is like " no that's silly, they lack...." lack what? Nothing really. That voice is still there. I'm thankful and still believe in this place. Case in point. Bro John lithien my brothers and leaders, thanks you for shining your light. Please do not stop. I thank u for the ability to meet and have you in my life.
Your light helps me see clearer.
All my heart Carlos.

OB1Shinobi wrote: no one really believe in the fsm so its not a sincere religion

You can't prove a negative without knowing every single person's individual religious beliefs in their entirety. Just as a federal court ruled in 1974 that it had no right to "consider the merits or fallacies of a religion" or to "praise or condemn" one, you can't actually speak to the sincerity of FSM as a whole. You can only speak with certainty about "adherents" to the FSM that you've met, personally.

i cannot prove the negative but i am still right, and i do believe that you know this

anyway it is established that the whole thing began as a protest so its already proven

the message of the pastafarians is valid but the "doctrine" is bs and im pretty confident that they know it

i dont feel that fsm is a real concern for prisoners rights but its true that sometimes individuals may develop their own personal versions or variants of other religions - like what about the new ager with a "medicine bag"? one who really believes that he has a valid religious item, though no one else does, and is not allowed to practice according to his sincere beliefs?

thats just the first example which came to mind, im sure we could think of more, but this FSM game the inmate is playing doesn help the case for our appropriating new ager

and i now find myself very curious, is there anyone here who really considers pastafarianism to be a legitimate religion?
if so, why?

and does it have to be a "legitimate" religion to be eligible for religious protection under the law?

and what IS a "legitimate" religion anyway?

OB1Shinobi wrote: And i now find myself very curious, is there anyone here who really considers pastafarianism to be a legitimate religion?
if so, why?

Is Jediism a legitimate religion? Is Buddhism? Is Wicca? Is Christianity?

What criteria might be applied to define whether a religion is legitimate or not?

Manu wrote:

OB1Shinobi wrote: And i now find myself very curious, is there anyone here who really considers pastafarianism to be a legitimate religion?
if so, why?

Is Jediism a legitimate religion? Is Buddhism? Is Wicca? Is Christianity?

What criteria might be applied to define whether a religion is legitimate or not?

lol i was editing my post as you replied - i agree with your question and im curious for the answers that may follow but for myself it seems obvious that jediism is a legitimate religion and equally obvious that pastafarianism is not

all the religions you named are and i am going to hold off on answering the question of criteria for the moment because i more interested in hearing others right now than in giving my own answers

EDIT

i WILL say that the FSM group comes close enough to make for an interesting discussion, but that I BELIEVE it ultimately falls short for an obvious reason

Snowy Aftermath wrote: [strike]Stephen, you're in prison for first-degree assault. You tried to kill two people with a hatchet. Don't attach yourself to a childish atheist metaphor whose goal is to antagonize people and drag us down with you, just SHUT UP.[/strike]

I really, really hope any incarcerated Jedi don't draw attention to themselves like this.

Why not?
He's a human being just like you or me. Let him wear an eyepatch if he wants. I don't care if he attacked or killed somebody, that doesn't make his life or his desires any less legitimate than yours or mine. Standing against his right to self-expression as a human being, regardless of circumstance, doesn't seem admirable to me. Frankly, if you or I take the stance that he doesn't have the right to say whatever he wants to say or do whatever he wants to do so long as he's not harming anyone, I don't see how we're any better than him or any other violent criminal. What kind of people are we if we dehumanize other people, regardless of their actions, and treat human beings like dogs, expecting them to speak only when we deem it acceptable and only in a way that we agree with?