Does "evil" exist?

Lykeios wrote: No. There is no objective measurement for "evil." It's a subjective judgment call. As an idea, yes, it exists. However, lots of untrue ideas exist, that doesn't mean they exist in the world.

The real question now, I think, is "Does 'good' exist?"

well, if evil does not exist, CAN good exist?

people talk about the relativity of evil as if to say that this disproves its existence

but in a way that logic might be backwards - good and evil are often spoken of as being a scale of opposite polarities, similar maybe to the north and south pole

or maybe the difference between hot and cold

well, of course relativity may appear throughout cultures

just as relative temperature may change at different coordinates

what is "really cold" to a canadian is a totally different experience from anything even concieved of by someone who has never been outside of thailand
but
proving that ones personal experience of hot vs cold is a relative, subjective experience
does not at all prove that hot and cold are totally imaginary
and
using the metaphor of the magnetic poles
if there is no south
could there be a north?

but if i exist as a single entity on the surface of a globe in a three dimensional world
doesnt this mean that by definition there MUST be both a "south" and a "north"?

and once i have the apparatus to sense temperature variation
that there must be both a hot and a cold?

in a way, doesnt the subjective relativity acually prove the idea has merit then?

It's gotta represent action I think, which can be referenced to make evil 'speech', or considered as evil 'thoughts', but what the word represents should probably best fit something which associates to the definition one uses for evil, and for my definition its really the action of awareness and increasing someones suffering. Good or bad is just a subjective interpretation afaik. Have a good weekend everyone
:lol:

Good and evil are ideas created but the collective human unconscious. There is not definitive reality to the concepts. What is good and what is evil change based on the individual perceiving them. Test: Can your idea of good/evil explain a natural order outside of human consciousness? They are mental constructs based on human instinct for prolonged survival in a herd. One might see all of the evil that humanity has done to the animals, humans and the earth, and see them begin to think about space travel and spreading that evil to other places. That could be reason enough to exterminate humanity on the whole. Is that an evil act? The perception of the 'evil doer' and the motivation are what make it inherently moral or amoral. You can't measure it from an objective perspective because as an external perspective, it necessitates subjectivity based on your morals, cultural bias and the law. This is why law cannot come from a perspective of morals. It has to come from a perspective of the best solution for the largest group of people. There will always be people that do not need laws to negate their own moral shortcomings. They can self govern by understanding their greater affect. The interesting people are the one's who see and understand this same bigger picture and still decide to upset the system, or try to tear it down. I think we should be trying to see what they see, rather than immediately demonising.

if "beauty is in the eye of the beholder..." then evil is her sister?

OB1Shinobi wrote:

Warning: Spoiler!

Lykeios wrote: No. There is no objective measurement for "evil." It's a subjective judgment call. As an idea, yes, it exists. However, lots of untrue ideas exist, that doesn't mean they exist in the world.

The real question now, I think, is "Does 'good' exist?"

well, if evil does not exist, CAN good exist?

people talk about the relativity of evil as if to say that this disproves its existence

but in a way that logic might be backwards - good and evil are often spoken of as being a scale of opposite polarities, similar maybe to the north and south pole

or maybe the difference between hot and cold

well, of course relativity may appear throughout cultures

just as relative temperature may change at different coordinates

what is "really cold" to a canadian is a totally different experience from anything even concieved of by someone who has never been outside of thailand
but
proving that ones personal experience of hot vs cold is a relative, subjective experience
does not at all prove that hot and cold are totally imaginary
and
using the metaphor of the magnetic poles
if there is no south
could there be a north?

but if i exist as a single entity on the surface of a globe in a three dimensional world
doesnt this mean that by definition there MUST be both a "south" and a "north"?

and once i have the apparatus to sense temperature variation
that there must be both a hot and a cold?

in a way, doesnt the subjective relativity acually prove the idea has merit then?

The only problem with comparing good and evil to hot and cold or north and south magnetic poles is that we have ways to measure cold and magnetic polarity. We can't measure good and evil. We have different scales of temperature but 70* F in one place is 70* F in another (regardless of personal feelings towards said temperature). The point of a compass points at the north magnetic pole (which is not actually in the same location as the north geographic pole) regardless of the compasses position.

Good and evil, however, have no numerical or instrumental measurement which we can use to quantify it. It is purely an emotional reaction. Like they said in an episode of Daredevil "or maybe evil is like pornography and you just know it when you see it."

I would like to believe in an absolute good and evil. It would certainly simplify life. It's one of the reasons that I like fantasy books and movies. In most of them there really isn't much of a question on what's good and what's evil. The dude leading the army of orcs is evil and the elves are good. Simple.

Unfortunately humans aren't like that. Real life isn't like that. Everything exists as a shade of grey and no one sees the same spectrum. The best that we can hope for is to be around people who see a spectrum that's close enough to ours that we can get along.

"shades of grey" is another way of saying "relativity"

and even though there is some relativity to the idea of evil this does not at all mean that evil is an illusory concept

there is relativity to the experience of temperature
relative to the individual species like a penguin or a camel
or to the individual culture such as an inuit or a malaysian
and then to the individual organism such as peter or sarawut

but this relativity again does not mean that HOT and COLD are illusory
it only means that particular individuals will find themselves located at different places on the scale or the globe or born into species and cultures with varying levels of sensitivity and sophistication

and measurement is a result of the advancement of culture and technology

a duck has absolutely no way to intellectually express how they MEASURE either temperature or magnetic polarity and yet they all go south when it gets cold

they do this infallibly

according to our current understanding of ducks, it is not possible for a single one of them to conceptualize that temperature, as a variable scale of precise degrees, or polarity, as an invisible force capable of physically moving a metal object, are real

but obviously they acknowledge the reality of these things

so, saying that we do not yet have the sophistication to measure evil is not evidence that evil is not a valid concept or that it doesnt exist

If anyone has never seen a talk by Philip Zimbardo on the subject of evil then I would recommend they do so.

His Ted Talk 'The Psychology of Evil' is a good introduction to why people do things we might consider evil (though his focus is more on groups than lone individuals), and may help some to clarify whether they believe evil exists or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsFEV35tWsg

i enjoyed that a lot Edan

this one is a little bit longer but i thought it was very interesting as well, if anyone is simply interested in exploring the topic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLp7vWB0TeY

I think acts, big and small, can upset our sensibilities of proper behavior and they can be called evil, sure. But do I believe there is a SOURCE of evil that's lurking behind and in all those acts?

No.

Here is another way of looking at it... Do animals have consciousness? Are they self aware enough to avoid suffering? Do they seek acts that prolong life and avoid death? Then would another species that understands that concept then be evil in nature to kill those beings that are self aware enough to have pain/death avoidance? Or is there a separation between species? Could an advanced alien species view is the same way if they had greater awareness than us? Would that make them evil? Would any of those acts be evil in nature or are they based on perspective?