Does "evil" exist?

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8 years 9 months ago #197647 by Jestor
Does "evil" exist? was created by Jestor
Or is "evil" merely a judgment?

On walk-about...

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
Former Memeber of the TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter

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8 years 9 months ago #197648 by
Replied by on topic Does "evil" exist?
I don't think concepts exist without context. Certainly, somebody could see something as "evil". But, that's a label and a judgment. So, you've definitely got the right idea there.

Actions are just actions. They have consequences. And, those exist independent of judgment. An action only has an identity based on what the person thinks about it.

All actions are neutral.

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8 years 9 months ago #197651 by Edan
Replied by Edan on topic Does "evil" exist?
Evil is as Connor said, a label.

We'd probably consider people who buried their servants with their dead family members as evil, yet the early dynasties of Egyptian Pharoahs did just that.

We can only view the world from our own perspective, and our experiences and culture colour those views.

It won't let me have a blank signature ...
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8 years 9 months ago #197664 by Tellahane
Replied by Tellahane on topic Does "evil" exist?
evil is a label, based off of a perspective
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8 years 9 months ago - 8 years 9 months ago #197667 by
Replied by on topic Does "evil" exist?
Yes, I believe "evil" exists. I feel like the Darkside and "shadow" resides in us as a conscious being. I feel that we create it. It comes from our actions, intentions and "shadows". When we operate out of our subconscious or unconscious hurts, wounds, pains, insecurities, and suffering, that act usually has some for of those qualities in it - there for it perpetuates the cycle of "pain".

I feel that people when people "act" from their pain or "shadow" side - the Darkside - that action could be classified as "evil". If I am actively doing things to hurt, shame, or diminish an other person in order to gain something or to make myself "feel" better in the moment, that is "evil". If a person's intention is to create harmful pain for an other for my own personal satisfaction, that could be described as "evil".

I do not believe that there is any "evil" in the Force, Source or "God". Humans create the darkside all by ourselves.
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8 years 9 months ago - 8 years 9 months ago #197669 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Does "evil" exist?
IMO Yep, as an action... not as a 'Force'. I've not encountered supernatural evil anywhere which was not manifest though the creature itself (yet).

So my comments are limited to that... being awareness of somethings suffering and intention or action to increase that suffering.... importantly must represents an interaction with something that can 'suffer' - which is where the boundaries start to shape up for use of the word/concept.

So perhaps limited to things with apparent sentience, but perhaps also even just self awareness. Which ends up usually resting with animals only as sentient (most often), but many like to include plants or any system with enough complexity to warrant 'possible' sentience or at least obvious self awareness.

But do we really know... it's even tricky to compare suffering between humans - does one persons pain level match someone else!? We most often tend to do so in human terms which would be a safe bet for close species but 'could' become less accurate as it gets further from our own human individual understanding. So it's tricky to understand the subjective reality of other phylum, and 'really' questionable to do to other kingdom's and probably becomes completely unlikely in different domains of life...

... still, as a Jedi my observance to the concept of the Force means I associate (and extend) awareness to iterations of what I perceive as potential suffering, across all things - not as a duty to it, but as an expression of self. It transforms through concepts like stability, efficiency, productivity, resonance, health etc and has to be seen both with an internal and external scope.

Gosh, I even practise it to inanimate things but as an exercise not a rule.

Hurting the dog #evil
Hurting the insect #likelyevil
Hurt the tree #maybeperhapsnot
Hurt the table #crikeygivemewhatyouron

But its a good exercise for me to exert care, precision and awareness beyond normal levels - but its less about actual suffering and more about understanding the nature of matter. So it really boils down to an awareness and measure of complexity, and trying to be nice
:laugh:

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 8 years 9 months ago by Adder.
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8 years 9 months ago #197674 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic Does "evil" exist?
Moved per request...

As some folks couldn't post responses...:)

On walk-about...

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
Former Memeber of the TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter
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8 years 9 months ago #197681 by Tellahane
Replied by Tellahane on topic Does "evil" exist?

Tellahane wrote: evil is a label, based off of a perspective


I'm gonna re-iterate:

Evil is a label, assigned to an action that is deemed immoral by choice of an individual and/or group all the way up to the size of a society, all of which is still based on perspective of all those involved.
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8 years 9 months ago #197699 by
Replied by on topic Does "evil" exist?
Some thoughts...

What do you mean exist?

Is evil a tangible entity? Can you hold evil in your hand? Then in that case it doesn't exist.

But evil as an idea in our minds "exists". Evil is a judgement we can make about something.

If someone holds up a pen and asks "what is this?" The reply they'll receive is "a pen". But what this person is holding isn't "pen", "pen" is a sound we attribute to the thing being held. Much like evil.

Does language exist? Sure we can make sounds, but language is a concept, a modelling of sounds into a particular order. Does the United Kingdom exist? Can you go out and touch it? I can touch the ground "owned" by the United Kingdom, but if I get out my microscope and look really hard all I find is dirt, where is this United Kingdom people speak of?

Here's an interesting question: Why do humans run the world? *spoiler alert* Because we cooperate flexibly in vast numbers, but what is it about us that allows us to cooperate in large numbers (some insects do, but not flexibly) and not, say, chimpanzees?

"We can cooperate with numerous strangers because we can invent fictional stories, spread them around, and convince millions of strangers to believe in them."

Humans live in a world of rivers and trees, but we also live in a world of make-believe comprised of fictional entities like the United Kingdom, Morality and Money (a useless piece of paper or even just a number on a computer screen...).

As Alex pointed out to me the Tao Te Ching begins with a pun:

http://www.friesian.com/taote.htm

The Tao Te Ching begins with a pun: "Way" and "spoken of" ("said") are the same character (Dào). So the first line says: "The Tao that can be tao-ed is not the constant Tao." "The name that can be named..." Here the pun can be maintained in English, where "name" can be both noun and verb.


Names are fictional entities and Taoism is about stripping away the world of make-believe humans impose on reality.

http://ideas.ted.com/why-humans-run-the-world/

Why humans run the world
History professor Yuval Noah Harari — author of Sapiens: A Brief History of Mankind — explains why humans have dominated Earth. The reason is not what you might expect.
Warning: Spoiler!

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8 years 9 months ago #197706 by
Replied by on topic Does "evil" exist?
I believe it exists, simply because we're talking about it. Even if everything is relative, and all ideas of morality are subjective, we still have the concept called Evil. So, at least in that sense, it exists.

Illusions, no matter how they are based in reality, are real one way or another.

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