ER Nurses wept at the sight of his injuries

ren wrote:

That said, I would like to think that I would refuse to kill them, as much as I might want to. Something has to make me different than them.

Glad to see someone make this argument... The issue with the death penalty isn't whether it is right for people to live, but whether it is right to kill them.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/wild_things/2014/05/22/animal_social_justice_equality_in_bonobos_chimps_monkeys_lions_baboons.html

It's normal in other species to kill off their own if they do not meet up with the will of the group. I don't think even you'r line of thought is quite the right avenue. Perhaps "Is it right to not at least give an honest attempt at rehabilitation" would fit in more with my personal beliefs. Whether it is right or wrong, we're animals like any other. Killing is neither right or wrong, but rather why you are doing it makes it right or wrong. Animals kill for their survival- whether for food or personal (or even pack) safety makes no difference.

Sure as a sapient species we can create other methods of dealing with the situation, and possibly resolve it. But not all things are so easily resolved. At some point the person is just too much for us to waste capable (psychologists, lawyers, guards efforts, etc- not money, water, food and the like- which is actually cheaper in the long run, but I mean the efforts you put into working with them to rehabilitate) resources on, when we could be working on other people that are willing to meet you half way.

ren wrote: Prisons could be designed in a way that isn't a criminal breeding center, and heck, I don't know what the big deal is with forced labour, we have community service sentences, which are forced labour, why not have those in prisons too? Inmates that are there for a long time or forever could be rewarded for it. Just because they are not capable of living in society does not mean they are incapable of doing other things.

This. This would definitely work as well, in my opinion. Just so long as they are living apart from the general population, without the ability to hurt anyone any further, while not being a complete drain on those of us who abide by the law.

I've heard this argument before, about labour. However I've also heard the argument that if prisons are offering to do work for free or for reduced income, then it takes away work from someone who really does need it.

I've been thinking about this for quite some time now.

I think a lot - I've been told it's "too much" at times.

I read this and wonder - what made these people this way and what would it take for me to be able to do something like that? And I go with that question, after I cry for the child...
In order for me to get to a place where I could do what they did, just as they did it, I would have to suffer from extreme mental illness of some type. In order for that to happen I would need a past filled with all sorts of traumas and struggles I barely made it through. Perhaps I might need a family situation that lead me to believe or to begin to believe that things other people view as wrong or evil... really aren't so bad.
For me to be able to do what these people did I would have to be a completely different person.
Which then makes me wonder what it was that happened to them and who failed them in their lives.

I cannot relate to these people in any way. I do not understand how anyone could ever do that to a child. I hope that they'll be able to get to a place where they realize what they did and face it with a mind that can think clearly and rationally. I hope that they will be able to feel the weight of it on their shoulders and mourn for their actions..
That's really all I can say..
Well that.. and.. I'm so glad I'm not the one who has to decide anything..
All of it makes me feel quite sick.

Edan wrote: We did this before.. and now we have the country of Australia..

Ha ha!!! No offence taken although it maybe us who needs to apologise. You see the infastructure and support created by the convict settlements essentially made migration to Australian a real option. Migrants came from all over the place (Europe mainly) so we are really a nation of mostly European migrants who call themselves Australians.

Of course there were still convicts being sent out to Australia from England and they all wore shirts with the acronym POHM (prisoner of his/her majesty). So Australians now call all English people pohms. So essentially we call you all criminals so sorry about that.

Honestly most Australian names tend to be derogatory in some way but its almost always taken as a term of endearment.

Edan wrote: I've heard this argument before, about labour. However I've also heard the argument that if prisons are offering to do work for free or for reduced income, then it takes away work from someone who really does need it.

The prison could act as a business like any other. Sure the "employees" would not get paid the minimum wage, but the extra profit would go toward financing the prison..... Giving you better rehabilitation and lower cost to the taxpayer.
Prisoners may have family on the outside in need of help. The prisoner's work could (for example) entitle them to working tax credit, therefore helping with day-to-day costs. I don't see how this could be a bad way of rehabilitating. If the prisoner "taking work away from someone who really needs it" had been out of prison, doing the same thing, that other person would still really need work.

Brenna wrote: A death sentence. Anyone harming a child in such a deplorable manner has no "right" to rights. And the fact that the child had not been seen at school (or presumably anywhere else) suggests that they tried to hide it. IE, knew it was wrong.

Not only are these not people fit for integration into society, they should also be made a very clear example of. And I dont believe that the possibility of mental disturbance is a justifiable excuse in cases like this.

COMPLETLY agree. But as jedi we are supposed to follow our most holy of doctrines, which commands us to believe that....."In the sanctity of the human person. We oppose the use of torture and cruel or unusual punishment, including the death penalty."

And yet:

http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Jediism/32612-death-penalty-discussion-again?start=10#38513

Br. John here states that you can still believe in Capital Punishment (within reason as he points out in the thread above) and still be considered a Jedi. Just sayin'.

Alethea Thompson wrote: And yet:

http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Jediism/32612-death-penalty-discussion-again?start=10#38513

Br. John here states that you can still believe in Capital Punishment (within reason as he points out in the thread above) and still be considered a Jedi. Just sayin'.

The stance against torture and capital punishment is an organizational stance. I shouldn't have to explain, yet again, that as a corporation, TOTJO is allowed to have it's own policy and opinions, even if those are not actively embraced by all or even any of its members.

Besides what I said here http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Jediism/32612-death-penalty-discussion-again?start=10#38513 ; there's believing in the death penalty (DP) and there's believing you believe in it.

Have you been on a jury and voted for the DP? Are you a prosecutor that's charged someone with a capital crime and requested the DP? Have you been an executioner? Until you've had the opportunity to act on your belief you don't know for sure.