FORGIVENESS

The best revenge is a life well lived...

Out of interest (to anyone who wants to respond)...is it always harder to forgive someone for a wrong that was purposefully committed, as opposed to hurt caused unintentionally/accidentally?

I think a wrongdoing is a wrongdoing, there have been many times in my life where my intentions have been good and I have hurt someone in the process of my actions.

This is something I have become much more aware of now after spending time here at TotJO, and now I try to consciously keep myself from stepping into that gray area.

what will be will be.

I have been reading a lot of Buddhist texts over the time I’ve been with the Temple. If I understand correctly, there should be no forgiveness or a need to forget. The injury to you was a part of the suffering we all must face in life. Suffering is also what binds us to that which keeps us from enlightenment. Life is suffering and in order to defeat suffering, we must take suffering into us and make it a part of us. By doing so you change the state of what suffering is. In essence, you eliminate suffering by making it another function of life, like breathing. You expect it, you welcome it, you defeat it.

To relieve suffering, we must live in the here and now. What happened cannot be undone and the idea that you were unjustly treated is a symptom of your ego and selfishness…your need to be placed in a higher stature than others. It is the ego…the “I” that holds us to the injustice. Why would you let another person destroy your chance at enlightenment by holding onto the pain and anguish they have inflicted.

Let go of your feeling of your ego and be free from suffering!

This is so hard to accomplish, and I have yet to even scratch the surface of mastering it, but I continue to work at it.

V-Tog wrote: Out of interest (to anyone who wants to respond)...is it always harder to forgive someone for a wrong that was purposefully committed, as opposed to hurt caused unintentionally/accidentally?

I think I can say from personal experience that I have found that to be true, at least for myself.

V-Tog wrote: Out of interest (to anyone who wants to respond)...is it always harder to forgive someone for a wrong that was purposefully committed, as opposed to hurt caused unintentionally/accidentally?

Absolutely. There is a huge difference between someone actively seeking to hurt you vs. someone who accidently causes pain.

Accidents can be understood. When one explains their viewpoint you can reach a level of understanding and forgive their mistake.

Yet when a person specifically targets you? That is a whole other animal. The purpose and meaning is way different.

That said - I don't do the forgiveness thing. It simply affects how I approach the person. but certainly purposefully vs. accidently makes a difference to me.

For me letting go IS forgiveness...the past is over with , clinging to its remnants is simply choosing to keep the pain fresh...a self inflicted torture...I've been wronged plenty in the past...an abusive childhood, bullies, etc...I learned from the experiences, took the pain from them and used it as fuel to strengthen myself, and then moved on....some hurts took longer than others...forgiven, but never forgotten...he who forgets the past is destined to repeat it....

Every time I ponder the meaning of forgiveness for some reason I always think of the scene in the Lion King where Rafiki leads Simba to the water pool where he communicates with the spirit of his father, Mufasa. After this conversation, he is worried about confronting his past.

Adult Simba: I know what I have to do. But going back means I'll have to face my past. I've been running from it for so long.
[Rafiki hits Simba on the head with his stick]
Adult Simba: Ow! Jeez, what was that for?
Rafiki: It doesn't matter. It's in the past.
[laughs]
Adult Simba: Yeah, but it still hurts.
Rafiki: Oh yes, the past can hurt. But from the way I see it, you can either run from it, or... learn from it.
[swings his stick again at Simba, who ducks out of the way] (http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0000591/quotes)

Even though Rafiki is not really speaking of forgiveness, that is how I interpret it. You can either chose not to forgive the wrong, which is basically running from the situation. It will cross your mind from time to time, and you will probably regret it. You will eventually want to forgive the person but by that time the relationship is ruined. To forgive the wrong, you are showing your worth as a (insert type of relationship here) and you shouldn't lose much sleep over it. It is definitely a challenge at the time, but taking the high road is always worth it in the end.

Phortis Nespin wrote: I have been reading a lot of Buddhist texts over the time I’ve been with the Temple. If I understand correctly, there should be no forgiveness or a need to forget. The injury to you was a part of the suffering we all must face in life. Suffering is also what binds us to that which keeps us from enlightenment. Life is suffering and in order to defeat suffering, we must take suffering into us and make it a part of us. By doing so you change the state of what suffering is. In essence, you eliminate suffering by making it another function of life, like breathing. You expect it, you welcome it, you defeat it.

To relieve suffering, we must live in the here and now. What happened cannot be undone and the idea that you were unjustly treated is a symptom of your ego and selfishness…your need to be placed in a higher stature than others. It is the ego…the “I” that holds us to the injustice. Why would you let another person destroy your chance at enlightenment by holding onto the pain and anguish they have inflicted.

Let go of your feeling of your ego and be free from suffering!

This is so hard to accomplish, and I have yet to even scratch the surface of mastering it, but I continue to work at it.

The first noble truth, as told by Buddha is this:
Life is dukkha.

Many people mistranslate dukkha to mean suffering but this is wrong. In the context of forgiveness, it means the dukkha of conditioned states (saṃkhāra-dukkha) - a basic unsatisfactoriness pervading all forms of existence, due to the fact that all forms of life are changing, impermanent and without any inner core or substance. On this level, the term indicates a lack of satisfaction, a sense that things never measure up to our expectations or standards.

But you are correct to say that our own egos are the source of our expectations.

Whyte Horse wrote:

Many people mistranslate dukkha to mean suffering but this is wrong. In the context of forgiveness, it means the dukkha of conditioned states (saṃkhāra-dukkha) - a basic unsatisfactoriness pervading all forms of existence, due to the fact that all forms of life are changing, impermanent and without any inner core or substance. On this level, the term indicates a lack of satisfaction, a sense that things never measure up to our expectations or standards.

I bow to your knowledge of Buddhism, as I was raised Catholic and have only recently studied Buddhism, I have a question to expand my knowledge...

Most all of the text I read talk of suffering and also of impermanence, but I have come to understand that if a person does not acknowledge the alleged insult or injury in the first place, as a matter of understanding that life is suffering and that nothing is permanent, then there is no context of forgiving anything or the need to forgive? By eliminating any form of unsatisfactory behavior against us (suffering being the end result of the unsatisfactory behavior against us) then the ego has been suppressed, and the need to forgive, or the concept of being injured or insulted has been wiped away from existence. (So to speak)????

Expectations and personal standards are of the ego and must be eliminated. This is a very difficult concept to grasp when we have spent our whole lives being told to stand up for yourself, fight back, be proud, etc. Maybe not so much to grasp as to eliminate what we have learned. (Uh Oh...Yoda Quote - You Must Unlearn what you have learned).