why predominantly philosophy?

A thought occured to me this morning, as I answered a question a novice had regarding ex 4 in the IP, then thought of my own current assignment on Zen.I understand that we jedi must have a similar frame of reference philosophically froom which to operate, relate and communicate, and that's fine. But it seems that courses here are overwhelmingly philosophical in nature, when people here have a wide range of skills, knowledge and outside interests, interests that can and should be more highly leveraged to produce a well rounded and more powerful temple.

Take me, for example. I have a bachelors degree in finance, with a minor in econ from the U of Alabama. I took latin, symbolic logic and one comparative religion class while there. I then got an MBA from UAH (while working full time inconsumer finance), then started as an army contractor and joined the national guard as an officer. I got level 1 certifications from the Defense Acquisition University ina number of fields including logistics, program management, and budgeting. I later received certificatioon as a mental health professional fromthe AL dept of mental health, which led me to one of my current jobs. I started my own consulting form and registered as a lobbyist, the only one in my little city as a matter of fact. By last count, I have traveleled to over 24 countries, jumped from planes, scuba dived the great barrier reef and heard whale song while underwater.

All that to say, I didn't take a lot of philosophy. And being tested on that criteria (over and over ) is like the old adage where a rhino, a chimp, and a fish are being given a standardized test where they must climb a tree to pass. Here, I am that battle scarred rhino asked to climg the philosophical tree to pass.

My frame of reference has always been hard cold reality, not the what ifs and why's and what could have beens. None of those matter if they don't come to pass.

Tl,dr version: why so much philosophy, when a person may or may not use it going forward and has many of their own skills besides?

What abbout soem thing on military strat, tactics and tech, and history? I remember having to write a peaper on how xerxes lost the big one in OCS.

Along the same lines, an analysis of the situation in syria. Who are the players, what's the history, its potential to destabilize an already unstable region. I believe jedi should have a good grasp on a situation with the capability to kick off WW3.

And so forth. There is literally a worlds worth of options that would be more engaging and useful to some jedi than a constant stream of philosophy.

Just some thoughts. Please let me know what you think.

I would think that you and I are very similar in many of those aspects Des. Honestly I would.

I completely relate to the old battle scarred Rhino reference!!!

But I don’t think the philosophy taught is “what if” so much as it is looking at things from a different perspective. I think a lot of the” what if” comes from people setting around practicing arm chair politics in the different posts.

But, just like learning something new, our muscles get sore as we practice and develop them. And it is not always easy for everyone. Look at me… I am not all that smart and some of the things I’ve learned here I struggled with at some point or another. Like tolerance of weakness. When in fact it wasn’t that I needed to learn to tolerate those that are weak; but, rather I needed to accept people for who they are and recognize that we all don’t have the same strengths.

Desolous wrote: Tl,dr version: why so much philosophy, when a person may or may not use it going forward and has many of their own skills besides?

Because this is a religion, which are almost exclusively based on philosophy and spiritual experience.

Yes, there is a lot you have to offer the community. The same is true of the rest of us. But, in teaching a religion, you must teach the underlying philosophy and spirituality. When joining the Catholic Church, you aren't given math courses, or asked to solve complex chemical formulae; instead, you're taught the dogma of the Church, her philosophies, the expectations of spiritual experience within the Church, etc. When you study to convert to Judaism, you aren't quizzed on post-classical art forms or Renaissance composers, you study what Judaism is about. If you run off to a Buddhist monastery, or visit a Shinto shrine, you won't be bombarded with military history or political issues, unless they directly relate to the foundational philosophies and spirituality of the religions.

tl;dr - Yes, there is more to religion than philosophy, but that's where it all starts.

steamboat28 wrote:

Desolous wrote: Tl,dr version: why so much philosophy, when a person may or may not use it going forward and has many of their own skills besides?

Because this is a religion, which are almost exclusively based on philosophy and spiritual experience.

Yes, there is a lot you have to offer the community. The same is true of the rest of us. But, in teaching a religion, you must teach the underlying philosophy and spirituality. When joining the Catholic Church, you aren't given math courses, or asked to solve complex chemical formulae; instead, you're taught the dogma of the Church, her philosophies, the expectations of spiritual experience within the Church, etc. When you study to convert to Judaism, you aren't quizzed on post-classical art forms or Renaissance composers, you study what Judaism is about. If you run off to a Buddhist monastery, or visit a Shinto shrine, you won't be bombarded with military history or political issues, unless they directly relate to the foundational philosophies and spirituality of the religions.

tl;dr - Yes, there is more to religion than philosophy, but that's where it all starts.

That's kinda my point , steamboat. We do not live here at TOTJO, we can only visit from time to time. As such, I am interested more in creating jedi capable of navigating more than just this website, but life itself. Applied jediism, if you will. We had that syria thread. I remember one ostensible jedi saying that the only way to secure peace in the region is to turn it into a glass parking lot.

A glass parking lot.

Not only is that not a jedi-like thought or course of action, but also not realistic in 'the real world'. That is my concern. We are so sheltered here, most of us have little to no idea about some of the things we talk about. Why? Be cause we mostly talk about watts, campbell, zen and the like instead, and we don't learn how to actually apply those lessons.

There is NO reason that TOTJO cannot also teach other things. Have you not heard of the knights templar, steam? The martial arts trained shinto monks? There are MANY in the vatican that do other things than just worship, the swiss guard in particular.

TOTJO teaches plenty of things, it just does it exactly like every other faith does: through discussion, not doctrine.

I wholeheartedly agree that we should be encouraging a very well-rounded education here at TOTJO, but I don't believe that anything but the actual faith should be covered in the coursework. I feel that one of the things we should learn here is socialization with different-minded people, and how to learn through discussion.

That's what these forums are for.

That's a bit of it, Des ... your "hard, cold reality" is only one perspective. I disagree that the only way to pass for everyone is is to climb a tree. Part of what we hope to learn here is what sort of animal one is, whether it be rhino, chimp or fish. It could be that one thinks one is one sort, but is actually another. Perhaps you would best look at things from fresher perspectives than those to which your previous training limits you.

I personally have been "formed" for a lot of different types of work that do not necessarily conform to the animal I am, being quite spritely in the trees. Moreover, where one may seek to be educated in the areas where their mental faculties aggregate, that does not assure that one's thinking has aptly corresponded to one's reality.

There are a lot of interesting things. Furthermore, philosophy is ubiquitous and polyvalent. You do not need apply stern academic philosophy to your tasks, but learning to trust your intuition beyond the superficial and certainly beyond what you already "know".



... and I feel that "applied" Jediism is the only sort there is. Just like "applied" philosophy is the only sort that is really 'philosophy'.

I believe that TOTJO isn't here to set down concrete instructions on how to do anything. The basis in philosophy allows people to see the facts and choose for themselves what path to travel. We are the place that takes conventional wisdom and sets it to the side. We don't discount it completely, instead applying a new way of thinking.

For me, philosophy is a way teach new methods of thought. TOTJO doesn't have the advantage of physical learning facilities, relying on a purely text-based program to pass on information. We present the opportunity to change in the medium we have, encouraging the student to ask the questions of themselves. I feel that this skill is not taught in most classrooms. Traditional didactic education continues to have students read the information and then, on command, regurgitate it to meet a minimum standard. There is no incentive to truly seek further knowledge. Philosophy is rooted in the basis of "why", constantly pushing the will to learn forward.

At OCS I can imagine the tactical-decision games you may have played, where each scenario has a "best answer" and a whole lot of "good answers". Here, the best answer cannot be applied to each individual because we are all very different. I know that not every candidate at OCS was successful with the teaching template used there. The same is true here with our training template: Some people get it, others do not.

I admit that sometimes being a rhino is tough, but it's not the worst outcome. Ask the fish how he did on the test. At least you saw the tree and asked the critical question: Why this?

[quote That is my concern. We are so sheltered here, most of us have little to no idea about some of the things we talk about. Why? Be cause we mostly talk about watts, campbell, zen and the like instead, and we don't learn how to actually apply those lessons. [/quote]



I agree but isn't that sounding a little philosophical?

We are a philosophical website...

Not much else that can be, well, verified...

Ideally, we would require more physical requirements, and, we are moving toward that...

Did finance or economics teach you any philosophy? Prolly not... And, we dont teach those topics here...

Could we? sure, but there would be qualifications needing to be met...

How about any of those level one certs? They teach you philosophy?

The point is, each place teaches a specific trait, or line of thinking...

So, do we...

I would love to see a little thing on controlling spending, or how to manage money... No one ever taught me, and I am a mess financially... I am getting better, but, Im not there yet...

But, these courses will become more available as we continue to grow...