[Warning Possible Spoilers] Force Awakens discussion (Post viewing) (Warning Spoilers)

Regarding the supposed lack of character development, Lawrence Kasdan makes this very good point:

Everyone who has seen these movies thinks about ‘I am your father …’ and ‘There is another …’ But neither of those things were in [1977’s original] Star Wars. Star Wars didn’t say Luke was the son of Vader. Star Wars didn’t say Leia was the sister of Luke. You didn’t understand what these references were: the Empire, dark times, Clone Wars. There were these things that were discussed that don’t get explained. George [Lucas] dropped you into a story and respected you to infer everything necessary to understand what you need to know… Can this movie actually also hold, ‘And Rey is this … And Finn is that … And this is where Poe is from …’ This is the first of a series. There is a story to be told. And it will be.

A bit confused that people think Rey being able to use Force powers is just an unintended plot hole... I mean, for a start we know some Force users do spontaneously come by them, a la Anakin's pod racing expertise... but the bigger thing here is hey, Rey can do this stuff we know only JEDI can do (not just Force users in general). So who is she? How does she know about it? It's not a plot hole... it's the ongoing plot :huh:

The awakening.. Kylo, who isn't yet finished with his training, can stop a blaster bolt mid flight. He can extract information from the mind of others using only the Force. Even Vader couldn't do that (think of Leia's interrogation). The Force itself seems more powerful, those who can use it seem more adept. The FORCE Awakens... not Rey Awakens. Kylo doesn't necessarily understand that, in what he says... remember, he looks to Snoke for guidance about the Force still, he's not an authority on it. He's basically a kid still.

Also, Kit what makes you think Finn is supposed to be a Jedi? He holds a lightsaber, barely survives a battle with a stormtrooper, holds his own against a dark sider who is injured and hasn't completed his training for about... 30 seconds? before getting his ass handed to him. He also fought the melee stormy and held his own... suggesting he had melee training. Also why does Phasma stand out? She's the boss. She's also part of an ongoing story, I'm willing to bet the treatment Finn handed her will result in a personal vendetta later on... but then, she let down the shields easily, so maybe she's a rogue agent in another way?

Really I feel most of the criticism I've seen here is that the plot threads are incomplete... which is a bit strange, as we know this is the first part of a trilogy. At least. Do people criticise Empire because we don't know what happens to the Rebellion, to Han...?

WHO IS Salacious Crumb? Boba Fett? Admiral Ackbar? Greedo? Well uh... they're minor characters, who play a part in moving the plot along. *shrug*

Some wonder how he was beat by a girl who had never even wielded a lightsaber before - I don't. Kylo Ren was actually very rusty on his lightsaber training, he had been out of practice, being the only one around who even wielded one.

Well, not quite, aside from the fact that he clearly has a master and peers to train with and was once trained by Luke, and was apparently good enough to wipe out the Jedi who were there that Luke was beginning to form tells me he is at least adept.Much more then Rey any way you slice it. By that Logic, Darth Vader should have been as crappy, but clearly wasnt.

Khaos wrote: Well, not quite, aside from the fact that he clearly has a master and peers to train with and was once trained by Luke, and was apparently good enough to wipe out the Jedi who were there that Luke was beginning to form tells me he is at least adept.Much more then Rey any way you slice it.

And he had been shot, and he wanted Rey to become his Apprentice. We don't know that he wiped out all Jedi, and if he did we don't know that he did so with a saber.

Rey also clearly has a lot of experience fighting with melee weapons, shown throughout. For all we've seen she might be more experienced than Kylo Ren. We have no idea how many duels he's fought, mostly we saw him deflecting blaster bolts... and he still got shot.

I will say, that I did like Kylo Rens saber in the way it sounded and looked. Not the cross guard, but unstable. I do wonder if he will make a new one after he completes his training. Or if Rey will construct a staff considering her original melee weapon.

Also, who the hell is Snoke? I mean, sure, another Dark Force user, but apparently as powerful at least as Palpatine? Dont know, but it did seem strange to me that he wasnt all that concerned about the Starkiller Base blowing up.

I hope Ren doesnt have to get a respirator or anything, but at least now he has a reason to where the mask. There clearly not Sith, at least in the sense of no yellow eyes, etc. Nor do they need to be the only Force using group that uses the Dark side. Though of course again they could be, i mean,who the hell is Snoke?

Why does Luke now have a metal hand? Also, if he is in hiding, he probably shouldnt dress like a Jedi... Those robes are a dead giveaway.

I would like to see Rey use a saber staff as well. That would be good fun.

I was hoping Fin would be a Jedi also, but it seems not to be.

That final scene was shot in Ireland. It seems I now have another reason to go. What a lovely place!

I am looking forward to seeing it again. I thorooughly enjoyed it. I think my favorite thing was the reluctance to start the journey for both Finn and Rey. Poe was sort of a hero's hero, already fun and figured out. It was a joy to watch Fin and Rey dragged forward by their own moral imperatives.

One of the major obstacles for me in enjoying this film is that it didn't have Lucas' signature cinematography feel to it. It was distinctly Abrams sans lens flare (thank the gods). Even the Millenium Falcon interior, which had been painstakingly reconstructed, didn't quite feel like the freighter Chewie and Han used to smuggle goods around under the noses of the Empire. It was hard to get over because it completely changed the feel of the film.

Another obstacle was the pacing of the film. Lucas wasn't one to shy away from slow, emotional development moments even if they were poorly written. Abrams doesn't really have that. The scene where Finn realizes he isn't a mindless killing machine happened so fast that I wasn't quite sure what made Finn different from the rest.

However, I did like it.

I've heard people complain that they didn't understand how Kylo Ren could possibly have been beaten by Rey, but if you pay attention you'll notice that Kylo Ren is an undisciplined child. Although Vader was prone to punishing failure with a Force hug around the throat, Kylo Ren throws a full-blown temper tantrum (slicing the control panel). It would appear to me that since falling to the Dark Side, Kylo Ren hasn't really been trained much at all. He's got a lot of raw potential and carries with him the emotional baggage to fuel his Dark Side tendencies, but he's also secretly tortured by his desire for reconciliation with his father.

Rey on the other hand is learning to stop running from her destiny. She spent most of the film running from it while simultaneously awaiting the return of her parents. By the time she faces off with Kylo Ren she has become less afraid of who she is and begins to embrace her connection to the Force. You'll notice her technique with the lightsaber is all thrusting, which made it much more believable to me than Finn's style which demonstrated way more finesse than I would expect from who has never used a lightsaber before nor is he Force-sensitive.

All told, this film was magnificent in comparison to the prequels, but is quite obviously not Lucas's Star Wars. It also had the impossible task of setting up the storyline for several movies without being so vague that there was hardly any content. I look forward to what comes next in the franchise.

I seen the movie on Thursday, opening night. I am going to see it again tomorrow. I think after seeing some of the posts here, it will allow me to look at things in a different perspective and perhaps focus on other things.

Remember it is difficult to fully understand a movie and its plot in just one viewing. It is once we talk about it that we can bounce ideas off each other and get a better grasp of the movie. I originally didn't like it as a stand-alone movie as much as some of the other ones, but remembering that it is just the first in a series of movies, it was pretty good. I look forward to seeing the next ones.

It is also important to recognize that Star Wars is not a cult movie anymore. They didn't write or make this movie just for the serious fans but for many people. That could be a good or bad thing depending on which side you fall on, but the reality is they geared it for the larger base. I am sure it would be different if it was made specifically for a cult following.

I think Proteus, Jamie, and TZB made some great points about some of the "hole" in the movie.

http://www.tor.com/2015/12/21/star-wars-the-force-awakens-spoiler-review/

I actually missed the first twenty minutes of the film because my best friend hit a deer and I needed to help get her home. We had bought tickets days ago and I was pretty excited. I have to say I was really impressed with the Internet as a whole that many people did not post spoilers. Usually when a movie comes out they are full of them.

My thoughts echo everyone here. Being a trained sword fighter I was pretty put off that two people with no saber training were able to use a saber proficiently against someone who clearly did have training (albeit not very good training) however seeing a Storm trooper use a type of energy staff I could almost stretch belief into Finn having some kind of exposure to that.

I did have a favorite moment though and one thing I liked about this movie versus the previous was a stronger female lead characters. It's the moment when Rey and the rest of the fleet come home after destroying the planet Death Star. Everyone else is celebrating as Rey looks on emotionally destroyed. Leia sees her and knows. She knows exactly what Rey is feeling and walks up to her and just hugs her. Does not say a word, just empathizes with her while everyone else is happy and cheering. Those two women there together. Leia is in essence passing her torch right there. To me that was the most Jedi moment in the movie. Not Luke standing there on a cliff looking all scraggly and having had abandoned the Galaxy to his screw ups.

That moment was very touching for me and also very relatable.