Apologies

steamboat28 wrote:

Connor L. wrote: Exactly. On this website, my life isn't dependent on the relationships I form here. I don't need anything from anybody here.

Mine is. I do. I have met too many people here who have changed me and saved me for this not to be a community important to me. Which (though it may seem odd to some of you) is why I cause so much "trouble" here.

This has been filtering around my head and I wasn't quite sure how to say what I was thinking about it, but will try anyway.

I get a little uncomfortable when people differentiate "real life" and "online life". For me, there is no difference. It is all life. The fact that I can log off and get away from it is no different than deciding not to physically go somewhere.

The differentiation bugs me because it encourages that sense of anonymity, of separation. Of breaking down the other person into just a representation, not really human at all. Its really easy to be rude and aggressive and uncaring about someone when you've assigned them to "just online, not really real". Like Steam, there are people here that have changed my life.


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Connor L. wrote: I'm just indifferent to them and their feelings.

I have to admit that I find it deeply unsettling that your criteria for how you treat people is based on whether or not you can get something from them, or they do something for you.

Connor L. wrote: Lots of people fight in wars. I won't pretend to tell you why you did it (I'm assuming from your response).

/me is a civilian.

This has been filtering around my head and I wasn't quite sure how to say what I was thinking about it, but will try anyway.

I get a little uncomfortable when people differentiate "real life" and "online life". For me, there is no difference. It is all life. The fact that I can log off and get away from it is no different than deciding not to physically go somewhere.

The differentiation bugs me because it encourages that sense of anonymity, of separation. Of breaking down the other person into just a representation, not really human at all. Its really easy to be rude and aggressive and uncaring about someone when you've assigned them to "just online, not really real". Like Steam, there are people here that have changed my life.

I agree with all this. However its because I don differentiate or make trite my conversations online that I can be rude or aggressive. I care, and it shows, and im in no way ashamed of that. Being human, and giving value to these conversations I experience the whole of the emotional spectrum and show it.

I think the reverse is also true, in that its easy to be stoic, indifferent, aloof, passive/aggressive,or joking to the point of being condescending, because people have been assigned to "just online".

I think it can go both ways. I have many a time run into people that are only comfortable putting on there big boy pants in a conversation because they know I cant shove my fist down there throat.

There seems to be a lot of judgment going on here. I think this conversation would be served well by accepting that 'rude' is a very subjective word. A healthy belch after a meal is disgusting to some, but a compliment to the chef to others. A crude example, I know, but I think you get the point.

Considering a natural tendency to act a certain way as someone being 'rude' only shows that you are projecting your own values and beliefs on someone else. Comparing 'natural instinct' to socially accepted norms in a specific society is very dangerous. It is not normal for me to be a cannibal in my society. Whether I would eat another human being in order to survive myself is a totally different question. It's all very relative.

If I understand him at all (and please forgive me, Connor, if I am misrepresenting you), I believe Connor is saying that it is his choice to decide who is being 'rude' to him, and he has a choice of ways to react to that person. He can ignore them or he can engage with them to change the behavior. If there is nothing in it for him, he will likely ignore them. If there is something to be gained by being 'polite' to this person, he will.

At the same time, Connor is not putting any intentional effort into being 'rude' to other people. Some others may choose to consider his behavior as 'rude' according to their own social conventions. Those people then have the same choice he does. They can choose to ignore him, or they can choose to engage him and attempt to change his behavior. If there is nothing in it for the person trying to change Connor's behavior, why would they put in the effort? For the sake of defending common decency, I suppose, but who decides what is 'commonly decent'? (See the belch example again)

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I have to disagree Senan.

I feel its an exploration of our perceptions and experiences of rudeness. One that can only serve us by looking at it openly.

A question that was asked earlier but not addressed I think is a good one.

1. What is gained from rudeness?

Everything that we do fulfills a basic need. What do we get out of being rude?

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Brenna wrote: I have to disagree Senan.

I feel its an exploration of our perceptions and experiences of rudeness. One that can only serve us by looking at it openly.

A question that was asked earlier but not addressed I think is a good one.

1. What is gained from rudeness?

Everything that we do fulfills a basic need. What do we get out of being rude?

Fair enough. Perhaps I'm just getting carried away with 'lawyer-speak' and forgetting what it feels like when someone is rude to me. While I don't know you all that well (yet), I will assume that we probably have pretty similar ideas of what is 'rude' and what isn't. At the very least, I would think we both make an effort not to be rude to others if we can knowingly avoid it.

The struggle I have with this issue (and it is MY struggle that I hope to gain insight into by being a part of this conversation) is that I can't answer the question 'what do I get out of being rude' if I don't know what you think 'rude' is. (I think I just channeled Bill Clinton )

My brothers and I used to steal food off of each other's plates all the time and it was just a way of life in my house. I got more food. I got better food. I liked that. So did my brothers, so they did it right back. I won't pretend that I didn't know it was probably wrong to act that way, but nobody ever went to bed hungry so it was just fun and games to me.

I learned very quickly that this behavior is rude and unacceptable among adults, and certainly frowned upon in public. I also learned that because of these experiences I subconsciously guard my plate with a lightning fast iron fork of doom :laugh: . It's a behavior my wife does not find amusing.

I had to learn that this behavior is rude. It was taught to me by others who all agreed that this behavior is rude. Now I fit in with the polite people. I'm just not so sure that such a diverse group of Jedi in this temple could ever agree on who the polite people are.

That being said, we should certainly explore the issue and discuss it openly. No unacceptable behavior will ever change if you don't call attention to it.

I should still qualify.

I don't think I'm rude. I'm just not touchy feely or care about people. That indifference generally comes off as rude to people.

When I was younger, I had myself tested for psychopathy. The results were inconclusive, but they did say I should continue to explore my possible social disorder with psychologists.

Connor L. wrote: I should still qualify.

I don't think I'm rude. I'm just not touchy feely or care about people. That indifference generally comes off as rude to people.

When I was younger, I had myself tested for psychopathy. The results were inconclusive, but they did say I should continue to explore my possible social disorder with psychologists.

When you were younger?

Yeah, when I was 16. My parents thought it was weird I ran a cheating ring at school, got caught, and felt no remorse for my actions. In fact, I tricked everybody there into liking me still. I had engrained myself so deeply that people just shrugged it off after a while. I'm still loved at my high school. It's amusing. I'm glad they forgave me! I haven't cheated since. Haven't needed to. I didn't need to then, either. I just wanted to see how far I could push their buttons.

Personally, I think I do have ASPD. Maybe a milder form of it. I'm lazy, and that's not an attribute of most people with ASPD.

So your parents had you tested?