Developing tk/pk

forceuser wrote: To be clear I do believe in reality I have physically beat many highly trained martial artists I have been in the United States military jumped out of planes repelled graduated from the Sheriff's Department earned a contractor's license and real estate license to name a few
Yes I have been highly trained in reality
All I can tell you is this if all you believe in is what you can touch with your hands you have a longer way to becoming a Jedi

Believing in the abstract because of logic, deduction, and rationale is completely different that making claim that cannot be substantiated by anything other than anecdotes and woo. I am fully willing to accept that you believe what you say, I have no reason to doubt you, however, I have no reason to believe what you believe just because you believe it.

If you can present anything verifiable or falsifiable to support your claims that don't boil down to because "I said so", "trust me, I know." "A lot of people think/claim." or just anything objective, then there might be reason to believe. But to my knowledge not then that basic hurdle has cleared by supports of this pseudo-meta-woo-bs.

I'd love to be wrong here, I'd love to see proof of the paranormal or psychic, but that just hasn't happened yet and I can't allow my want to believe to come a faith in something that just isn't there.

I have been looking for proof of this my whole life, I do it every day. I sift through story after story and I know the people think they are true, but the validity of the story doesn't matter, it's just a story. Without something, some way, some method, or just any proof for these extraordinary claims...it doesn't happened. I mean I can understand that there are unexplained things and there things we don't know, but the jump from "I don't know" to paranormal, supernational, pk, mystics, etc. is a bridge too far. You say you think it is X, but that doesn't make so and when it is something that has never before been seen, you have to have more than faith.

I'm pondering the words of the wise and I think of all the religions of the world Christianity Judaism Eastern cultures and the Egyptians they all have stories about Small Miracles or large miracles
Is it possible?
That the thousands of books written buy the wise are either 100% lies or possibly we have been deceived
I don't know I am only a lost student carrying two empty cups

forceuser wrote: I'm pondering the words of the wise and I think of all the religions of the world Christianity Judaism Eastern cultures and the Egyptians they all have stories about Small Miracles or large miracles
Is it possible?
That the thousands of books written buy the wise are either 100% lies or possibly we have been deceived
I don't know I am only a lost student carrying two empty cups

It is possible, in that there is a non-zero chance, but it probable that all those books are true? More probable than say... that people thousands of years ago didn't have the ability to understand, measure, or quantify things that they saw and experienced so they decided Zeus was angry or Eototo was laughing and thatGod or whatever you choose to the source of these miracles just so happened to also take a nap or whatever at the same time we became able to understands the natural world and could possibly verify a bona fide miracle

Also, I specially asked (as have others) show me something that isn't stories. I can tell you a story about a galaxy far, far away. Equally as valid by itself.

forceuser wrote: I'm pondering the words of the wise and I think of all the religions of the world Christianity Judaism Eastern cultures and the Egyptians they all have stories about Small Miracles or large miracles
Is it possible?
That the thousands of books written buy the wise are either 100% lies or possibly we have been deceived
I don't know I am only a lost student carrying two empty cups

You are not a lost student anymore my friend. Fortunately you find yourself here at TOTJO, as good a place as any to learn how to see through this false dichotomy you have presented yourself with (Possible vs Lies/Deception).

If you work through the Joseph Campbell lectures in the Initiate Program Lesson 1, the answers are all there. I won't spoil it - by giving you the answer. I have no wish to deny you the satisfaction of discovering the solution for yourself. Suffice to say that your answer lies in the role and nature of 'myth'.

And don't worry about the cups - empty ones are more useful than full ones - but that's a different lesson

I printed out Joseph's book I didn't realize how many pages it was now I'm going to have to go plant another tree LOL

I made a similar mistake with Watts. I'd keep on printing it out and then get frustrated would put it away or throw it out or tear it up. I'd probably need to plan a small forest to make up for that lesson.

forceuser wrote: All I can tell you is this if all you believe in is what you can touch with your hands you have a longer way to becoming a Jedi

You can't touch electricty or gravity or radio waves - you know three out of four examples I named of things you wouldn't say we just "have to experience ourselves" because they are actually real unlike sorcery.
But after getting my introduction to skepticism and critical thought on literally the first two lessons of my Jedi training, I think I'll happily take my chances against your expertly opinion that it will be "a longer way" for it. I have come to a point where I no longer care about gaining rank or "becoming a Jedi" quickly or indeed "getting there" at all, which in your opinion seems to be really what being a Jedi is all about. I'll leave it to the judgement of your fellow Jedi whether this is a fair assessment.
I don't believe you should get to shrug off every lie you tell yourself and every superstition you come to hold because of that as just another part of your Jedi path and find it frankly something of an insult to your Jedi brethren...

Gisteron wrote:

forceuser wrote: All I can tell you is this if all you believe in is what you can touch with your hands you have a longer way to becoming a Jedi

You can't touch electricty or gravity or radio waves - you know three out of four examples I named of things you wouldn't say we just "have to experience ourselves" because they are actually real unlike sorcery.
But after getting my introduction to skepticism and critical thought on literally the first two lessons of my Jedi training, I think I'll happily take my chances against your expertly opinion that it will be "a longer way" for it. I have come to a point where I no longer care about gaining rank or "becoming a Jedi" quickly or indeed "getting there" at all, which in your opinion seems to be really what being a Jedi is all about.

Of course not, you're too busy with "socializing" in the forums to have time for the study that's required to become a Knight right

I'll leave it to the judgement of your fellow Jedi whether this is a fair assessment.

Really, lol seems like you've already made that "assessment" for everyone...

I don't believe you should get to shrug off every lie you tell yourself and every superstition you come to hold because of that as just another part of your Jedi path and find it frankly something of an insult to your Jedi brethren...

Well...if that's all it takes to insult you Gist, (or anyone else for that matter) than you're probably not cut out for this afterall...

My only experiences with both elements occurred during a psychotic episode, so although the experiences were incredibly real to me, perspective from those around me provided a very different version of events.

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Zenchi wrote: Of course not, you're too busy with "socializing" in the forums to have time for the study that's required to become a Knight right

According to my Master's testimony at the time, I was about half way there before I even began to "socialize", if you must know. In terms of the sheer amount of relevant content I have absorbed since, I'm pretty sure I would be qualified, too. Despite this I am going out of my way to not presume any authority on matters of Jediism and instead leave it to those who identify with the label more strongly and who are formally recognized to be more qualified than myself. When I say that I do not care about rank or progress on the path, I am referring to that formal path and I do mean that I do not care about it, not that I'd be too lazy or too dumb to walk it again.

I'll leave it to the judgement of your fellow Jedi whether this is a fair assessment.

Really, lol seems like you've already made that "assessment" for everyone...

Interesting. Could you maybe quote the passage that seems to you like I did any such thing, ever?

I don't believe you should get to shrug off every lie you tell yourself and every superstition you come to hold because of that as just another part of your Jedi path and find it frankly something of an insult to your Jedi brethren...

Well...if that's all it takes to insult you Gist, (or anyone else for that matter) than you're probably not cut out for this afterall...

I pick my wors with care. I intentionally elected to call it "something of an insult", leaving it open just how insulting I find it to be and "to your Jedi brethren" leaving it open whether that includes myself at all or to what extent, but making sure that it includes those who do identify more strongly with the label and perhaps might not take very kindly to being told that self-deception is part of their lifestyle or worldview.