The Obtaining of Knowledge

Hi All,

I have recently started teaching on the Ethics, Philosophy and Religion module at Lancaster University in the UK and it has recently got me thinking about how people obtain and value certain types of knowledge, particularly with regards to metaphysics.

Religion, in general, starts with what it believes has been revealed. Be it through a deity or other supernatural means.

Philosophy, on the other hand, generally has its starting point with the mind as a blank slate, and can only be built upon using only reason and empiricism.

So the question is, where does Jediism stand on this issue?

OOoo....

For me it started with philosophy...

I think that the ability to think philosophically and understand philosophical concepts is important for helping us to understand and explore religion better...

V-Tog wrote:

I think that the ability to think philosophically and understand philosophical concepts is important for helping us to understand and explore religion better...

OK, but would you agree that Philosophy is self limiting? By that I mean that Philosophy always questions the conclusions that we come to, it's almost as if it is trapped in a never ending circle of self refutation. If this is the case, then Philosophy, quite obviously, has its limits as some metaphysical knowledge cannot be obtained by reason and empiricism. However, it depends on whether or not you value the knowledge that can be obtained via alternative means.

Sheuthem wrote: If this is the case, then Philosophy, quite obviously, has its limits as some metaphysical knowledge cannot be obtained by reason and empiricism. However, it depends on whether or not you value the knowledge that can be obtained via alternative means.

Meaning?

Ha ha! Yes, sorry! I will expand.

Meaning, that Aristotelian branch of metaphysics, otherwise known as Natural Theology, i.e. gaining a knowledge of the divine, or that which addresses questions about the universe that are beyond the scope of the physical sciences. This, originally being obtained by ancient mystics via meditation, fasting, etc.

I never understood much of this "metaphysical stuff" that people here go on about, so you have for forgive me and my ignorance...

I have only recently come to the community (a couple of years now), but, I have spent almost my entire life pondering the meaning of it all...

From my childhood, seriously...

So, when I hear of metaphysics, I ask what it means, I have defined it, have listened to books on it, yet still, its exact definition escapes me...

As does what exactly menitaion is... lol...

Like I have said to others, when they cant understand why I dont know what they are... How can I say I use them...

I dont have to know what mathamatics are to add 2+2=4... However, looking at all things it is merely your perception of the question which causes your definition...

2+2=4
2+2=22
2+2+fish (reverse one, and superimpose it on the other)

After I ran into the invisiable wall with my thinking, I used "mind altering" substances to try to think outside the box... I have hosted, and guided others through this mental adventure.. Quite the "trip"...lol... (I keel me!)

Basically I think you are eloquently asking if this is one big circle jerk... Life that is...

Yes it is... So I think...

We could drop all this crap, religion, philosophy, and whatever, and live out good, peaceful lives... Some of us anyway....

Some people need the idea that something is waiting for them, others dont care...

And others, just wonder... Thats us..lol...

Where does Jediism stand? Well, I would say on the Force. But, where is the evidence for the Force?

I agree that we can never understand the ethereal on more then a basic level while trapped in the flesh. I also believe strongly we can never know the majority of the physical universe.

As for the Force? I think it follow logically that there is an energy connection for the entire universe. If the universe started as a singularity of energy and then exploded outward then everything that came of that shares a common origin. That through line that connects the universe is the force. I believe the force has a will of its own. I've felt it. I feel on some level that I know it. But I can understand that this would be subjective, as someone who has never felt it would have to just take my word for it.

In short, the force is all around us and in us. But I think realizing that is one of those real life koans. Its hard to explain, its not physical, and words do a poor job of conveying the message of it.

Definitely started with philosophy for me (by your definition)

Well... I guess it started with the religion that is 'My parents', but now it is more philosophy than anything else

All we really have is our experiences, as unnerving as people find that...