"Age-ism" Discussion

(This is a a topic that I've felt very strongly about for 10+ years, and I'm kindof surprised that I never brought it up till now.)

1. What is age-ism? Do you know what it is? Do you think it's a significant problem? Or not worth addressing?
2. Have you ever been a victim of unfair age-ism? (Not being able to drink or smoke while underage doesn't qualify, obviously...) Or someone you know? Or both?
3. If you think age-ism should be addressed, how?


My answers:

1. To me, age-ism is "unfair discrimination based solely on age." I do think it's a problem that has gone unchecked. Even worse, it seems to be viewed as non-existent or even socially acceptable. It should be addressed, but there are a lot of problems and screwy things that can happen if it is addressed improperly.

2. Yes, I have, and often. Generally speaking, adults (and even teens much older than me) have said things like "you're just a stupid child", and "as a child, your brain is nothing but mush", and "as a child, you have no judgement". While I believe that children are susceptible to many mistakes and wrong paths, I don't think the above statements are true, and I have found them offensive many times in my past when adults (even close family members) have told me this. Most of the time, I just scowled and ignored whoever was saying these things to me. Sometimes, I tried to explain why I thought these statements were not true and hurtful. However, when I've done this, I remember getting all types of responses. Some of the adults in my life has said, "well, you're a kid right now, so how are you to know any better than me?" and "KNOW YOUR PLACE, CHILD". Then I'd back off and just ignore those age-ist bigots.

3. As mentioned, this is tricky, because it is so difficult to do anything about it. First of all, there is a "line" between unfairly discriminating based on age and necessarily prohibiting based on age. So while not allowing children to drink, smoke and drive can be considered discriminatory, they are necessary to maintain safety. However, a general, ethical rule of mine is that no one deserves to be harassed, teased, or put down because of a factor that they cannot control (or control easily).

Second, our way of living, our society, is very adult-dominated, which makes sense if you think about the power and wealth and influence in the world. The adults in the world are the ones who have jobs and earn the necessities and provisions for their children. Therefore, they have the power of materialism (and even psychology) over their children. In the most uncensored, frank view, an adult might think, "I'm the adult, I make the money, you don't provide for me, so why should I have to listen to you?" It all comes down to nourishment and who holds the keys to that, I guess.

Third, religious and traditional views provide lenience and slack to age-ist adults, parents, elders, etc. Nearly all religions in the world promote "respect your elders", and while this is initially a sensible concept, to maintain order and survival in all societies, I feel that many adults in my life have used this as an excuse to be (what I may refer to this all as) "verbally abusive" to their children. In some extreme cases, even physically abusive.

Also, on a side note, people don't realize how hard it for children to escape from abusive adults. Really, I could talk more about this topic, but I think I'll stop here and let my peers share.

Please share your thoughts on this matter. Thanks.

I understand the reasoning behind your thoughts here.
But do this. This post you made, print it out and save it.
Come back to it in twenty years and tell us what you think then.


Now what I will say is this.
From the creed.
"I am a Jedi.
I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love."
The Tenets of Jediism.
Focus.
Knowledge.
Wisdom.

Those who are younger tend to have greater focus. Then you grow a little and gain some knowledge. But it is not till later that you gain wisdom over your focus and knowledge.

So my advice is to listen to your elders.
But that does not mean to put up with abuse.
Bring love instead of hate.
Forgive those who have hurt you.
Believe things will get better.
Despair not, soon things will change.
Be light to those who are in the dark.


Remember you have chosen to walk a higher path in life.
Not that this makes you better than others.
But it does require more of you.
You have chosen the path of Jediism.
Search within the lessons you have done.
Search within the teachings.
Within them, wisdom you will find.

May the force be with you.

That is a very eloquently said response. And yes, I will hold on to this post and look it over in twenty years, but remember that I've felt this way for 10+ years already, and I still believe that age-ism is a problem despite reaching adulthood currently.


However,(to all those who read this thread) I'd honestly like to know all of your down-to-earth and to-the-point opinions on this matter. I think that Scott was trying to be flowery and incorporate general Jedi ideals to answer the question very generally.

What do all of you specifically think? (And I'm really open to any thoughts. I never bite )

OK my specifics then.

What is good for me, may not be good for you.

Sorry, that is the best you are going to get from me.
Who is right, and who is wrong.

So yes even now, with trying to be specific,
I will not be able to provide an answer that you seek.

The answer to your question must come from you.
I can not tell you what to do.
Seek the answer from within and you shall find it.

May the force be with you.


(edit) By the way my age is 42. I will be 43 on Oct 22.

Ayyiyeyiye... This is an interesting one.

First off - using the excuse of being an adult in order to abuse a child in any fashion is not cool (inexcusable). However the terms of what constitutes abuse are often hard to define and subject to perspective in many circumstances. Also, from a child's point of view, what may seem like abuse is, from the adult point of view, necessary for the child's development.

Next - a child's brain is physically not developed to the same extent as an adult's. Even if that child is a complete prodigy, he/she is still unable to reason at an adult level. This isn't ageism, but pure, simple scientific fact. kids are less-developed than adults. Simple.

However this is not to say that many insights from children and the younger adults fail to have merit. There's a reason Yoda liked to train the Young Ones. Children can have a different way of looking at things that an adult may not have considered. So a child should be respected I believe, and listened to - insofar as the child ultimately respects his elders (in all reasonable ventures and decisions). There are varying circumstances to consider in such a case, certainly, but at the end of the day the child or young adult should listen to his elders even if he/she disagrees. The child may not have all the facts or otherwise be incapable of understanding the situation at hand.

The problem of course is that quite often in modern society the adults are morons. Then the child should defer to the advice of adults who are obviously intelligent and understanding. Once again though, the child, simply due to brain development, should ultimately defer to the experience and advice of an elder.

There are more sides to the question, but that's what I've got for now. Time to go watch some BONES.

I must say 10 years ago when i was only 16 i felt the same way. With that said, i will also say that since i have become a parent of two myself, it is completely different now. Growing up my parents were, what i thought strict. Looking at how my wife and i deal with our 4 year old daughter, i feel fascist. But, it is out o love and caring that i am so strict with her, and i will be until the die i die. Because i love and care for her in a way that only a parent would ever understand. With that said there is a line, and in my opinion as a military police officer, it is not a fine line. For instance not disciplining your children is also a form of abuse called neglect, going the other route and beating your kids with a tire iron is also abuse. Sometimes the best way to approach the situation, (and i will be honest i don’t know you anywhere well enough to make a decision about your situation)is to step back and ask yourself, "what would i be doing if i were them? And think hard on it, give it at least ten minutes to sink in.

Ok, with that out of the way, i will also say that i do believe that every person develops at a different speed. The maturity of m sisters was far ahead of my own, my one sister was only 1.5 years ahead of me, but in maturity she was really 8-9. Often time’s people forget to take into account the maturity lvl of the one they are talking to. You could very well be ahead of people your own age, and those older then you are just putting you into a stereotype. I hope this helps.

Locksley wrote: The problem of course is that quite often in modern society the adults are morons.

LOL, yep. Adults are just kids who've stopped growing. I think it might actually boil down to being only be of physical and legislative relevance!?

To the OP;

1. I understand its meaning, but have not run into anything discriminatory as a child or adult from society which was not covered by the requirements of exerting authority for safety and education. I could have experienced individual examples of it but it was too long ago for me to remember any isolated incidents.
2. Nope, nope.
3. It sounds like an individual thing and not systematic.

1. I support it. I think children should be discriminated against and old people have additional rights. My line of thought is very meritocratic, and age is a basic, effective legal way of defining merit. Children havent done anything to merit anything, adults sort of have, old people as far as I'm concerned can be as crazy and moany as they want, walk around naked if they will (because they've earned it).
2. I don't think I've been discriminated against in an "unfair" way. Discrimination is usually regarded as unfair. I think that the meritocratic model is the fairest, and although age-based discrimination is not the most adequate, it is the most achievable. It is unfair yet the fairest we can achieve. (we practice it at totjo actually).
3. I think the only ageism that should be looked into is that of working-age people. Unless there is discrimination based on health grounds for important tasks (driving, piloting a plane, etc), I think it is wrong to discriminate against older working-age people.

The first set of questions was, “What is age-ism? Do you know what it is? Do you think it's a significant problem? Or not worth addressing?”

“Ageism, or age discrimination is stereotyping and discriminating against individuals or groups because of their age. It is a set of beliefs, attitudes, norms, and values used to justify age based prejudice, discrimination, and subordination. This may be casual or systematic. The term was coined in 1969 by Robert Neil Butler to describe discrimination against seniors, and patterned on sexism and racism. Butler defined Ageism as a combination of three connected elements. Among them were prejudicial attitudes towards older people, old age, and the aging process; discriminatory practices against older people; and institutional practices and policies that perpetuate stereotypes about older people. The term has also been used to describe prejudice and discrimination against adolescents and children, including ignoring their ideas because they are too young, or assuming that they should behave in certain ways because of their age.”

I personally do not see this to be a significant problem, especially here at TOTJO, but any form of discrimination is a subject that should be addressed.

I do not believe that I have ever been the “victim” of unfair age-ism. But I am certain that I have had my age used in my consideration or in the consideration of my actions or ideas in the past. I will also admit that there are times I will see something dumb or that I just disagree with and will calk it up to, “There just dumb kids and don’t know any better.” I have never rejected an idea because someone was not “old enough” though. In fact, I find that youth tends to spawn creativity, which that statement could be considered age-ism!

When I was growing up, one of my friends parents had a sign hanging in there house just inside the front door. “Attention youngster, teenagers, children, kids and young adults… move out now while you’re still young and know it all!” I use to get a kick out of reading it when I came over. And now that I am one of those grumpy “old” people I can appreciate it so much more. Far be it for me to group every younger person into one big group, but I have noticed a lot of the behaviors and thought process present in the youth that would cause someone to hang a sign like that in their house! On that same note, I have also witnessed the rigidness and inflexibility that would cause a less patient or less experience person aggravation.

No matter what, there are “bad” people everywhere that will abuse their positions and authority no matter what you do or where you go. It is not “right” but it is how it is and we will probably never get away from it. That does not mean to give up fighting for a better world, but perhaps we should also try to inform others about this fact and help them to prepare themselves to deal with adverse situations when they arrive.

I think that once you're of legal age to do everything legally there shouldn't be any ageism...

Just because you're "older" doesn't mean you're "wiser" yes you might have more life experience but it doesn't make you more mature, it doesn't make you any more of an adult...

Here's a key example...

A girl has to raise her brothers and sisters because her parents are very ill, this would obviously mature her, she's 20 years old and has the responsibilities of a 30-40yr old...

A woman who's 30-40 has no responsibilities, lives at home, has no boyfriend, goes out clubbing and doesn't have to worry about anything...

So there for the 20 year old could be wiser but who are we to judge either women? At the end of the day we don't know what we've all been through...So we can't really judge anyone based on their age after a certain point...as for respect your elders, I agree, you should give them "respect" in the sense that you listen to them, you don't always have to do as they say either...Just because they're older does not mean they know all the facts...I've found with some the older generation are very stuck in their ways and won't listen to anyone elses opinion and brush it off as stupid and uneducated...