Abolish Marriage

I see nothing wrong with keeping the term "marriage." Words change over time. They adapt. I thoroughly believe that one day, we will be able to separate "marriage" from religion fully. A non-Christian couple gets married. This has NO religious value to it. I just see no reason to drop "marriage" for "civil union" or whatever you want to call it. With states slowing catching on to gay marriage, we are already seeing a change in the term "marriage." What we have to do is get Christians off the back of everyone else. They are the ones holding back progress. And yes...this coming from the mouth (well...hands, really, lol) of a Christian.

Ceremony isn't always a necessity. I've had a few non-Christian friends who went to the court house and got married by the Justice of the Peace. When my ex-wife and I got married, it was just us, mine and her parents, and two of our closest friends.

Now yes, I did say "my ex-wife and I". I am divorced of my own doing. I got into an addiction that ripped my family apart. Things would have worked out had I not moved so far away from my ex. The problem was that she could not see me going through therapy and could not see the changes I was making. Unfortunately, it was either move 1200 miles away and live in my parents living room, or live out on the streets in the middle of a Michigan winter. She has shown a lot more interest in me lately when we talk, so we very well could be one of those couples that end up back together.

We both violated vows (mine not being faithful mentally to her, her not standing by my side in my time of need and helping me to get better). Because we were "married" and are now "divorced" some would look down on us. But had we been "unioned" and "separated" nobody would think twice? Why? It's the EXACT same thing, only labeled differently. This is why I don't understand why replacing marriage with civil union makes any sense. You're simply doing nothing but replacing the word. Instead of replacing the word, change the meaning of the one you have. It's not impossible.

It seems everyone here has their own valid opinion of what marriage appears to be or not. Some are absolutist, indifferent, understanding, critical, supportive, diplomatic, emotional, hopeful, pessimistic, resentful... . Topics like this bring out the best in human nature. For me personally none of this has much relevance other than that of interest. My parents are almost 50 years hapily married and I myself for almost 9. Lol, I would describe my marriage as being the rule of 2. My wife is a challenge, stuborn, emotional, rational, loving, revengeful, understanding, judging, peaceful... the list is endless. I have done much in my life but one thing I don't regret is marrying my hot wife, having sex with her and giving birth to my precious wonderful daughter. Marriage for me is the best thing which happened, sex is wonderful, family is wonderful, life is wonderful. If you don't like that or part of it fine. If you say it should be banned then are you any better than the institution of old who made it compulsary. As a potential victim of both systems I would loose out, and have to live out their psychotic phantasies. Its quite simple really, if you don't like it don't get married, and if you like it get married, but leave the rest of us alone.

Darn. Kind of disheartening when at the end of the day once all the chips are on the table we learn that we're debating semantics.

The origins of marriage appears to have sparked some interest tho. Maybe a new thread for that topic would be appropriate?

I'd say my objection to marriage is deeper than semantics. I'd say that most "marriages" aren't marriages in the traditional sense (and actually something better if they're not heirarchal and sexist). I'm just saying, a lot of you have given accounts of your "marriages" and to me the term "marriage" belittles it. Have more pride in yourselves and in what you and your partners have.

Responding to Jestor, no, I never said I was alright with accidental reproduction. I said to me it's the most tolerable form of reproduction. I still assert that reproduction is wrong and immoral under any circumstances, I'm just saying that I don't lump all breeders in together. I mean, there's a huge difference between the Duggars and people who accidentally get pregnant and can or will not have an abortion for whatever reason. Just clarifying.

Anyways, as someone who has made certain "alterations" (do not ask) to insure that he will never mate, this is not a personal problem for me. I simply wished to see if any of you agreed with me on this. I hate sexism. I grew up around it (raised Southern Baptist), and I would never call I woman I loved my "wife."

So Star Forge, I question what you're feelings are on infertility. Do you think it's a blessing from God? Or a medical condition to be treated?

I suffer from infertility and while having children does not define me or my husband, my heart is very sad because I can not give him the gift of his own bloodline. And while we can take measures to have children potentially, he respects my body and what I want to do with that choice.

War Beauty wrote: So Star Forge, I question what you're feelings are on infertility. Do you think it's a blessing from God? Or a medical condition to be treated?

I suffer from infertility and while having children does not define me or my husband, my heart is very sad because I can not give him the gift of his own bloodline. And while we can take measures to have children potentially, he respects my body and what I want to do with that choice.

I'm different from "mainstream" Christians in that I don't think God sits on a throne high above handing out "blessings." I guess I would say that infertiliy is fortunate in that one would never risk becoming pregnant, perpetuating human misery, and dealing with the humiliation of pregnancy. But those are just as much a personal choice. Honestly, I believe that if people sat back and thought about all the implications of reproduction, no one with even the tiniest shred of morality would reproduce.

Star Forge wrote: I'd say my objection to marriage is deeper than semantics. I'd say that most "marriages" aren't marriages in the traditional sense (and actually something better if they're not heirarchal and sexist). I'm just saying, a lot of you have given accounts of your "marriages" and to me the term "marriage" belittles it. Have more pride in yourselves and in what you and your partners have.

See, it is semantics... I have tons of pride in my marriage...

Not all people define it the same... Obviously you realize this... You have defined it for yourself to be a terrible "thing" to be titled with.... Whereas the majority of us do not...

Responding to Jestor, no, I never said I was alright with accidental reproduction. I said to me it's the most tolerable form of reproduction. I still assert that reproduction is wrong and immoral under any circumstances, I'm just saying that I don't lump all breeders in together. I mean, there's a huge difference between the Duggars and people who accidentally get pregnant and can or will not have an abortion for whatever reason. Just clarifying.

My bad, as i do this from my phone, it is tough to go back and reread a thread 14 pages.... So I will just apologize, and say I must have mis-remembered....

Anyways, as someone who has made certain "alterations" (do not ask) to insure that he will never mate, this is not a personal problem for me. I simply wished to see if any of you agreed with me on this. I hate sexism. I grew up around it (raised Southern Baptist), and I would never call I woman I loved my "wife."

Again, Your definition of the word wife is it is a terrible word...

Most of us don't feel that way....


We've said it before, and ill say it again.... Just because your the minority, doesn't mean your definition is wrong..

Only:
1. It does against the majority (that's OK, they said the earth was flat, and man would never fly)
2. If the theory works for you have at it.....

BUT, as i say this, don't tell me, or others to have more pride, meaning our definition is incorrect...

Our definition works fine... for us...

Nice try though...

Star Forge wrote:

War Beauty wrote: So Star Forge, I question what you're feelings are on infertility. Do you think it's a blessing from God? Or a medical condition to be treated?

I suffer from infertility and while having children does not define me or my husband, my heart is very sad because I can not give him the gift of his own bloodline. And while we can take measures to have children potentially, he respects my body and what I want to do with that choice.

I'm different from "mainstream" Christians in that I don't think God sits on a throne high above handing out "blessings." I guess I would say that infertiliy is fortunate in that one would never risk becoming pregnant, perpetuating human misery, and dealing with the humiliation of pregnancy. But those are just as much a personal choice. Honestly, I believe that if people sat back and thought about all the implications of reproduction, no one with even the tiniest shred of morality would reproduce.

And, while ill give you that many do not plan ahead, which as wecall know, proper planning goes a long way toward making sure misery and misfourtune are as slight as possible....

You keep coming back to, "I think"...

Whereas many of us here have contemplated it, and have done everything we can to lessen the misery....

I can't see, how anyone who's contemplated on the joys and sorrows of life, could come to the conclusion that the joys far outweigh the sorrows...

It is because of the sorrow, that the joys seem so sweet...

In my opinion...

I hate sexism. I grew up around it (raised Southern Baptist), and I would never call I woman I loved my "wife."

How is it sexist to call your wife "wife"?

Star Forge wrote:

War Beauty wrote: So Star Forge, I question what you're feelings are on infertility. Do you think it's a blessing from God? Or a medical condition to be treated?

I suffer from infertility and while having children does not define me or my husband, my heart is very sad because I can not give him the gift of his own bloodline. And while we can take measures to have children potentially, he respects my body and what I want to do with that choice.

I'm different from "mainstream" Christians in that I don't think God sits on a throne high above handing out "blessings." I guess I would say that infertiliy is fortunate in that one would never risk becoming pregnant, perpetuating human misery, and dealing with the humiliation of pregnancy. But those are just as much a personal choice. Honestly, I believe that if people sat back and thought about all the implications of reproduction, no one with even the tiniest shred of morality would reproduce.

Do you really detest your own life and this world so much that you would go back in time if you could and convince your mother to have never gone through this process to give birth to you? I find this world to be beautiful and amazing, as well as sad and corrupted. But I don't try to get lost on the negatives but accept them as part of this life. I am personally looking forward to the day that I can bring my own child into this world and to cherish the years I spend teaching him/her about the wonders of this planet (or even other planets as well ) If I was financially stable and in the right emotional state I wouldn't consider myself selfish for wanting to do this.