Defended Jediism yesterday...against my wife

First off, be it known to all that my wife is a wonderful spouse and a great mother. That being said, I was shocked at how vehement she was against Jediism (she comes from a Christian background).

Some common things were said like:

"How geeky"
"Star Wars is a M-O-V-I-E"
"That's not even real"

I had to really reach for the inner-Jedi and calm myself against the backlash. I explained that it's not role-playing, Star Wars is simply a parable that serves as a backdrop for what we really believe, I'm not in a cult, we are only interested in peace, serving others and recognizing the patterns and universal truths that shape all religions/cultures, etc.

It took a day, but this afternoon she finally calmed down about the idea of Jediism and accepted that what I am participating in is not bad or something to be feared.

So a question for any responders: Have you had to defend Jediism against others? And if so, what did you say and how did your antagonists respond to your well-reasoned answers?

She was not against (TOTJO) Jediism but against what she thought Jediism is. That's two different things. It's very common.

I hope you remembered to mention that our Creed was written by St. Francis of Assisi, the famous Christian Saint who started the tradition of Christmas Nativity Scenes.

If Jesus does speak for God, or is God, and The Bible is true then a Jedi living our Creed is going straight to Heaven. It does not get much clearer than this.

[The Final Judgment]
[31] “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. [32] Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. [33] And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. [34] Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. [35] For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, [36] I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ [37] Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? [38] And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? [39] And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ [40] And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

[41] “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. [42] For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, [43] I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ [44] Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ [45] Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ [46] And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

(Matthew 25:31-46 ESV)

---

When you find yourself in one of these situations always start by asking questions. "What do you think Jediism is about?" "Do you know what the TOTJO Creed says?" You'll get the usual answers about us praying to Yoda etc and then you can say, "I understand why you think it's ridiculous and I bet you'll be surprised when I tell you what it's really about."

There's no need to be defensive or offended since the person (999 times out of 1,000 at least) is not actually saying we're stupid since they don't know what we're about.

Consider it part of the trials and keep a good humor. It's going to happen again.

Yeah it happens, I had to defend it from my girlfriend, who also comes from a christian background, but she respects the fact that I believe in it and practice it, but she laughs any time I say it and thinks it is silly, simply because what is it called. It is still annoying, but I find peace in the fact that she respects what I believe, she just wishes it would be called something else :pinch:

@ Br. John

You are exactly right that she was against what she thought Jediism is; she did calm down after I explained to her what the Temple is about and I told her I would be happy to share everything I do learn. (I did not mention St. Francis of Assisi but I will; good idea.)

However, about your Bible verses: I don't think I'll get anywhere with her or many other Christians by appealing to the Bible. There are so many nuances and different ways of looking at the same scripture (as you well know).

For example, those scriptures in isolation would seem to give us Jedi merit that we would go straight to heaven, but what about these:

"21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." -- Matt 7:21-23

What are those wonderful works these people did that God still rejected them for? Another might say "have I accepted Jesus?" And if I haven't it doesn't matter that I did good things and helped others.

Someone else could say "Have you been baptized?" And if I haven't it doesn't matter that I did good things and helped others.

What do I think and what does the Force tell me? It tells me that those people are too "stuck on the metaphor" as Campbell would say.

But I'm with you Br. John: Jedi living the Creed should have no fear of any afterlife.

May the Force Be With You.

I hope its alright that I throw my 2 cents in here.

I am also lucky to have a girlfriend that neither rejects, or laughs , at what it is I have found, learn, and practice here and I am hoping that when our little one arrives in April, that she will not object to me teaching, and passing on, what I have found with the TOTJO.

I'm not versed in the bible in any way, shape, or form. I believe that while it is good, I can't follow something that has been in men's hands for so long. Man can be evil and the religions of old, even Christianity, loved the power they had.

Anyways, those last scriptures that were quoted, the problem I see there is "did we not do these things for you?" That in and of itself seems to be the problem. We should not do things hoping to enter heaven, we should do things for others simply because we can. By doing that we can enter heaven. Doing what was stated in the last scriptures quoted seems to be done for selfish reasons.

I do believe in God, or the Great Spirit, and in Jesus as well. Normally I would say that I do not believe in religion though I can't say that anymore. Men have done evil things in the name of religion: the old witch hunts and the crusades to name a few.

What I believe... What religion we are doesn't matter. The decisions, choices, and actions we make from the time we get up till the time we go to bed, that is what is important.

Just my opinion though.

My two cents here as well

I think "jedi" as a religion IS hilarious, and that's one of its strengths. Anyone who follows the jedi path long enough is able to laugh at himself for his "ridiculous religion" and not take things too seriously. When you are able to laugh at yourself, you let go of hardwired paradygms and are more open to new things, ideas, events.

"Parody" religions are not uncommon, take a look at Discordianism, The Church of the subgenius, etc. Their members tend to be very positive, full of humor, creative and open, and because of such qualities, knowledgeable about comparative religions and a bunch of other things.

All hail Yoda! :laugh:

I have to agree with Br. Jon. Also, not only do I like the words of wisdom he conveys; but, also the way he words it.

The few time I have come in to similar situations I try not to think of it as defending the religion so much as explaining my beliefs. I find that most people ridicule what they do not know or understand. If I can educate others either by word or action then I believe I have done well.

In the end it is the individual that has to come to terms with their own belief system. And all the arguing in the world, no matter how eloquent, will not change the mind of one which doesn’t want to hear.

have i had to defend my views from others....short answer...yes.

when someone ridicules me, i simply smile, give a little chuckle and say: "it's not what you think"....this usually gets them to ask "what is it then?" i then explain it to them, and demonstrate some of the concepts. over time they come to accept it and the mocking ceases...especially when i give advice on something that gets ignored...i don't go around to them saying " i told you so"....

our actions are our strongest defence, stronger than anything we say since words only have as much power as the listener is willing to give them (i invest little in words, unless i can see the wisdom within them).

no matter what the religious/philosophical view, there will always be detractors, and those that mock what they don't understand. the most anyone can do is to teach and demonstrate what they have learned and hope that a mind is opened even if it's only a little bit, or only one mind...

most of the major religions have only been around for 2011 years to 5000 years depending on the culture(most of the ones over 2500 years old no longer exist, or are no longer practiced)...every religion/philosophy had a beginning filled with ridicule, some survived by forcing themselves on others and using their power to wipe out opposing views, some survived by accepting all views and letting others choose.

Yeah I agree with Br. John as well as RyuJin on ways of going about the problem. I think for the most part the ridicule comes from a place of ignorance or misunderstanding. I think that a person educated on both Jediism and Religion in general would not look to ridicule or mock Jediism.

Unfortunately I disagree with you, Manu, as I do not see Jediism as a Parody religion. To me that would lump Jediism in with other groups such as pastafarians and those that you mentioned, who seek to practice their religion intentionally as a joke. I take Jediism as a religion seriously, and I do believe and hope that one day it will be treated with the same respect as any other religion out there.

That being said, there will always be those who look to mock or belittle us as a group, and we should not let them effect them. Like John and RyuJin have said, educated them on religion and jediism, try to broaden their horizon, but if they refuse to listen, then simply smile and move on. Do not allow them to effect your day or mood.

Coryduran wrote: Unfortunately I disagree with you, Manu, as I do not see Jediism as a Parody religion. To me that would lump Jediism in with other groups such as pastafarians and those that you mentioned, who seek to practice their religion intentionally as a joke. I take Jediism as a religion seriously, and I do believe and hope that one day it will be treated with the same respect as any other religion out there.

I didn't say Jediism is a parody religion, though I do realize I might have unwittingly implied it. I do not think it is a parody religion per say, but I do believe it is an asset that Jedi *know* that none of its history or background is to be taken literally (since Jediism is not about the movies, but about the philosophical concepts therein). It is a sure fire way of escaping the risks of fanaticism.

Though as a constructive criticism - as I've been there - many newcomers to any religion (Jedi or other) tend to place too much of an emphasis on their new religion to be accepted and less emphasis on simply letting its fruits speak for themselves.

Akasha Aditya wrote: I hope its alright that I throw my 2 cents in here.

<snip>

I'm not versed in the bible in any way, shape, or form. I believe that while it is good, I can't follow something that has been in men's hands for so long. Man can be evil and the religions of old, even Christianity, loved the power they had.

Anyways, those last scriptures that were quoted, the problem I see there is "did we not do these things for you?" That in and of itself seems to be the problem. We should not do things hoping to enter heaven, we should do things for others simply because we can. By doing that we can enter heaven. Doing what was stated in the last scriptures quoted seems to be done for selfish reasons.

<snip>

Just my opinion though.

I think you just made my point: you look at those scriptures differently than I do. But that's okay. I think your reading of it is just as valid. Who's to say? Unless Jesus were here to tell us what he meant, we are left with nuanced views of the Gospel scriptures I quoted. Religions have broken up into multiple sects over stuff like this.

But thank you for sharing your opinion!

May The Force Be With You.

Manu wrote: My two cents here as well

I think "jedi" as a religion IS hilarious, and that's one of its strengths. Anyone who follows the jedi path long enough is able to laugh at himself for his "ridiculous religion" and not take things too seriously. When you are able to laugh at yourself, you let go of hardwired paradygms and are more open to new things, ideas, events.

"Parody" religions are not uncommon, take a look at Discordianism, The Church of the subgenius, etc. Their members tend to be very positive, full of humor, creative and open, and because of such qualities, knowledgeable about comparative religions and a bunch of other things.

All hail Yoda! :laugh:

Hello Manu,

I don't think Jediism as a religion is hilarious at all. I don't believe anyone at this Temple that is going through the Initiate Program or has moved onto Apprenticeship and beyond is laughing at themselves.

Granted, I'm still a Novice in Jediism (literally), but this religion is taking the universal truths where ever we can find them in ANY culture or religion. What's funny about that? We're just as real and viable a religion as the Baptists down the street. Some people just can't get past a name.

Anyway, I hope you stick around here as long as I plan to. All perspectives molded toward the Jedi way can only yield a positive in my view.

-Learn_To_Know

I wholeheartedly agree with Learn-to-know!

Even though I have believed many of these truths long before I came here, I did not have the knowledge to convey my beliefs until I started the initiates program. Nor the resources, knowledgeable people of like opinion and view points, to speak with and receive guidance from. Granted, I do not agree with everyone all the time; the open exchange of ideas, acceptance and tolerance of others is a blessing which I have not found before.

I know this may sound like a negative response, but it is not meant to. I fully mean it to be taken as positive feed back on the defense of TOTJO.

I've mentioned it to my wife, but she is familiar with me doing stranger things so this doesnt worry her. The Temple's logo is our iPad's background and I even had her listen to bits of a couple of the Initiate Program audio lectures (she wants to hear more of The Field but says it might be too scientific). She already though has a history of spiritual interests so I think she understood my initial hack of an explanation. I think I'll try my sister next, now that will be interesting... or maybe not, because she'll run with it and tell everyone LOL. I'd like to at least control it somewhat so I can provide some answers and clarity. This topic does seem to be a real issue for sure.

Manu wrote: I didn't say Jediism is a parody religion, though I do realize I might have unwittingly implied it. I do not think it is a parody religion per say, but I do believe it is an asset that Jedi *know* that none of its history or background is to be taken literally (since Jediism is not about the movies, but about the philosophical concepts therein). It is a sure fire way of escaping the risks of fanaticism.

As you can see from the responses after yours, people there is no escape from fanaticism...

Not that the responses are rabidly so, but, there are always people who take stuff too serious.... And too serious is subjective.... Maybe I'm not serious enough? Again, it us subjective... lol...

This position, that I have in the Temple, is a serious one, but, it has to be tempered with humor....

Because, we argue about, God, no god, the Force, Allah, Aphrodite, Zues.... We can continue to argue forever... We will find out the answers.... So on this earthly plane, it does no good to get all worked up over something that currently cannot be proven, of disproven....

My name is Jestor for a reason, many actually... One is the ability to laugh at myself... I have a great propensity to self-degregate for humor... Everyone enjoys laughing at the follies of others... I intentionally will set myself up to be the butt of a joke....

I didn't think you implied that it was a parody religion.... And I agree that it is great that we realize our stories are not real... To me, the bible thumpers have forgotten that... Real or no, the point is listen to the lesson, don't get hung up on the deeds....

Though as a constructive criticism - as I've been there - many newcomers to any religion (Jedi or other) tend to place too much of an emphasis on their new religion to be accepted and less emphasis on simply letting its fruits speak for themselves.

... letting the fruits speak for themselves.

Awesome!

Learn_to_Know wrote: I don't think Jediism as a religion is hilarious at all. I don't believe anyone at this Temple that is going through the Initiate Program or has moved onto Apprenticeship and beyond is laughing at themselves.

I just picked one that had this sentiment, and yours because, like I said above, I love to laugh at myself...

Yes, I love this stuff... And while I do take it serious, I remember to laugh a little as well....

Life is to short, filled with enough people being serious for me to add another...

I've gotten pissy, one time about explaining what it is we do here, and it was to my non-religious wife...

Who yelled, and screamed, literally, that "this was fake, and what the f**k was wrong with me?"

Lots you don't know about me, but she is non religious... I do love her, but, emotions were a little aggirated around the Jestor compound in that time period...

I told her, not to nicely, that being as she knows nothing about religion, she should just shut up, because argueing about something that she doesn't understand makes her look stupid...

I do regret my delivery, but she has left me and "my jedi stuff", alone... It barely gets brought up.... Although interestingly enough, I've been in trouble for comments I've made in these public forums.... Weird, right?

Just my two cents as well.... :lol:

Well, I sure do hope that I am not coming off as a fanatic, I just believe this religion to be a good basis, and core of values, to try to mold my life around. I have a long road ahead of me lol.

No, no one here is acting fanatical....

Just a little defensive....

But when a persons beliefs get poked at enough, some get.... weary of it...

Even myself at times...

"I have to explain again?" and "what part are you having trouble with?"

Once in a while, you will see me loose my patience with a troll, or spammer here in a post or in the Shout...

I'm working on that.. lol...

@Jestor

Not finding Jediism funny is not the same as being offended at someone that thinks it's funny. If it comes off as defensive it's not meant to be an aggressive defense, more an explanation defense.

That is all I was was trying to convey with Manu. If he thinks it's funny but gets fulfillment out of it anyway -- more power to him. I don't find it funny, but I'm not bothered in the least (other than to reply to his comment) if he thinks it is. (Of course, I also find humor all over the place, too. In fact, I'm probably one of the least offended people around.)

And I also 100% agree with Manu on letting the fruits speak for themselves. It's about action, not words alone. A great quote from St. Francis of Assisi: "Preach the Gospel at all times. Use words if necessary."

What stories are you thinking of when you say our stories are not real? From what I've learned so far, we take the good from all stories/myths and apply them to us to get the truth of the message. I guess it's a story and not real, but the message can change lives for the better. That's a religion I can stand with. What are your thoughts on that?

Thanks for chiming in -- the more the merrier.

Love the License Plate

Learn_To_Know wrote: That is all I was was trying to convey with Manu. If he thinks it's funny but gets fulfillment out of it anyway -- more power to him. I don't find it funny, but I'm not bothered in the least (other than to reply to his comment) if he thinks it is. (Of course, I also find humor all over the place, too. In fact, I'm probably one of the least offended people around.)

Well, it's not like I'm meditating and start laughing at myself out of nowhere. (Well, maybe once or twice).