Force Powers

Dakini wrote: Knight Barger,
I never intended to start a full-out argument, and for this I ask your forgiveness. The posts on my thread have gone way too far! I was just asking what I thought was an innocuous, innocent question, but I fear it has drawn some of our members into anger, and anger is of the Dark Side.
Personally, I am training to become all that a Jedi is, and I will give up anything to achieve that goal. On my word of honor, I swear, I never intended to start an argument. For this I again beg you and the entire Temple's forgiveness.

I don't sense anger.

" I am training to become all that a Jedi is, and I will give up anything to achieve that goal. "

Giving up anything is a bit foolish. Besides I don't think that is required. That is a lynchpin for cults and that is not something we identify with

Dakini wrote: I wanted to learn it because I thought telekinesis was part of the basic Jedi training. Luke learned it in Dagobah, right?

Sorry, but we believe in physics here. And since we take Jediism seriously some things sound to us like a joke people may be trying to have at our expense. Star Wars is a fictional story with fictional characters and technology. We do not treat it as if everything in the movies is real. Luke also had a light saber. It worked thanks to a company called Industrial Light & Magic (ILM). It's a movie special effect. So was the telekinesis in the film. More special effects.

Jediism is not about super powers or magic, or space ships, or ewoks, or baby yoda (Even though it should be just based on how adorably cute the baby Yoda in the Mandalorian is). We don't take people's children, and I personally will never be voluntarily celibate. It is about who you are in real life and the journey to your potential.

Relax, Dakini. Though you could have found an answer to your question right in the FAQ, the lengthy and passionate discussion that ensued would not have grown as much as it did without the rest of our participation - nor is there anything wrong with that. Don't beat yourself up, it's fine.


@Fyxe:
So what exactly is this video you posted evidence of? I've watched it, even looked up some of the studies he cited, tried to overlook that he is a recognized quack and associates mostly with the same type of wooster as himself and that he spent like a third or so of his talk whining about how unfairly studies of this kind are treated in the mainstream - as if publishing in a half-decent journal is easy if only one do something else... Be that as it may, at best I'm looking at studies that are compatible if not supportive of a claim that mind-matter interaction may possibly account for an effect that is just barely beyond random noise. I mean, one of the fellow researchers he cited for an analysis of his work actually concluded in his paper that the data does not provide strong evidence of mind-matter interaction as claimed by Radin. And I might point that it was published in PLOS One, a journal whose impact factor is about an order of magnitude greater than the Physics Essays where Radin published... But that's all beside the point. I can be generous and take it at face value, and we'd still have barely moved from whence we started.
Which force powers you believe are real do Radin's findings correspond to, specifically? How is this evidence of any of the specific magic claims that were made here, by yourself or others?

Dakini wrote: What about on page 3 and 4 when everyone started talking about virginity?

Remember what is real let's focus on studying working hard getting a good education and a good job

ZealotX wrote:
sorry, not watching a 40 minute rehash of quantum physics.

Hmm, so I present the evidence asked for and you just refuse to even watch it? Very telling it seems...


Gisteron, what it shows is that there are real people out there doing real experiments and finding real conclusions about the mind body interactions. He has had good results with this work and is furthering our understanding of something others just say is not real without ever having tested anything! why do you just dismiss this stuff? Its valuable research into areas and anytime someone comes up with new ideas like this they always get laughed at until suddenly someone can make money doing it and then all of a sudden its great sceince and a breakthrough in amazing things! This is evidence, you asked for evidence, this may be preliminary but it is evidence and that cant be denied by you! So you were wrong.

Plus, someone mentioned christain Jedi. I didnt know what htat was and had to find out. well there is an entire section here just for CHRISTIAN JEDI!. so why do the christians get their own section and all their magical stuff just gets accepted as true but when it comes to smething like this I get told its not true and laughte at? what is the difference here?

(Opps hit wrong button-Ros)

In response to Ros/Daiquiri - True, a cultish "give us all your money and stop talking to all your friends and we'll teach you magic" isn't quite the vibe, but there are sacrifices to anything. If you were so inclined you might call this a "cost" or "giving something up" but that is a mean view of it. Giving away something you don't want to gain something important is hardly a bad deal.

Remember what is real let's focus on studying working hard getting a good education and a good job

Sure, do that, it's important, probably. Note I suppose that at least half, if not more, of the members here are grown arse adults who have mroe or less achieved the basic concepts of self sufficiency, hygiene, and grocery shopping.

Your mileage may vary, and I suppose this can be a fascinating discussion on when and how is the best way to learn different things. I personally didn't really start striving to master my self actualisation/transcendence piece until the more mundane was a matter of routine.

I'm sure there are studies out there (I generally wait until Obi finds them for me) on whether you are better starting-as-you-mean-to-go-on and trying to learn and internalise everything that makes up your "best self" from the get go, or starting with the foundational building blocks and adding complexity over time.

the prosaic logic would suggest the latter - you don't try to build a ship under after you learn how to measure and cut wood (I can probably work the old "man who chases two rabbits catches neither" into it somehow too)


Shouldn't put rabbits on boats anyway, they poop in the corners.

Dakini wrote: ): So sorry!
I never, never, NEVER intended for this conversation to go so amok! And it's not a joke at all!! I really respect and look up to the Jedi, and I am truly honored to be studying to become one.
): ): Please forgive me my ignorance!

Trust me. We're good. If I got upset at something like that I could hardly call myself a Jedi

Plus, someone mentioned christain Jedi. I didnt know what htat was and had to find out. well there is an entire section here just for CHRISTIAN JEDI!. so why do the christians get their own section and all their magical stuff just gets accepted as true but when it comes to smething like this I get told its not true and laughte at? what is the difference here?

I was going to answer that with what I believe the answer is, but I've a feeling that won't really help, so how about you answer the question?

Take a moment to think about why there might be a christian jedi section. Don't think too hard, I'm not looking for a specific correct answer, so don't stress - just take a moment to think about it, and give me your thoughts

(The trick is to think of reasons that benefit someone else, not reasons that play into your own motives)?

JamesSand wrote:

Plus, someone mentioned christain Jedi. I didnt know what htat was and had to find out. well there is an entire section here just for CHRISTIAN JEDI!. so why do the christians get their own section and all their magical stuff just gets accepted as true but when it comes to smething like this I get told its not true and laughte at? what is the difference here?

I was going to answer that with what I believe the answer is, but I've a feeling that won't really help, so how about you answer the question?

Take a moment to think about why there might be a christian jedi section. Don't think too hard, I'm not looking for a specific correct answer, so don't stress - just take a moment to think about it, and give me your thoughts

(The trick is to think of reasons that benefit someone else, not reasons that play into your own motives)

Because the people in charge are all actually christians and not Jedi or at least they are both? So their magic gets to stand without challenge.

Fyxe wrote: Gisteron, what it shows is that there are real people out there doing real experiments and finding real conclusions about the mind body interactions. He has had good results with this work and is furthering our understanding of something others just say is not real without ever having tested anything! why do you just dismiss this stuff?

I didn't. Read again.

Its valuable research into areas and anytime someone comes up with new ideas like this they always get laughed at until suddenly someone can make money doing it and then all of a sudden its great sceince and a breakthrough in amazing things! This is evidence, you asked for evidence, this may be preliminary but it is evidence and that cant be denied by you! So you were wrong.

What was I wrong about? What am I denying? And, to reiterate my question - seeing as you clearly didn't read it and just presumed I was being dismissive or denying - what claim did you or others make here that is supported by this evidence? Is this evidence of telekinesis? Or telepathy? Maybe astral projection? Talking to spirits/"higher beings"? What exactly was said or shown in the video, or better yet in the studies it references, setting aside their merits for the time being, that actually supports any of the nonsense you believe?

Because the people in charge are all actually christians and not Jedi or at least they are both? So their magic gets to stand without challenge.

It's as good an answer as any, I suppose.

There could be others, but if that's what you've assessed then that's what you've assessed.

So, let say you're spot on - if the people in charge are christians, and by extension are going to silence any other magic stories, what do you hope to gain by challenging them on their turf?

It would seem obvious now that this whole Jediism thing is a front to trick people into joining the christian church, maybe even to stop people from learning magic that the christian church knows exists and is afraid of!

Fyxe wrote:

ZealotX wrote:
sorry, not watching a 40 minute rehash of quantum physics.

Hmm, so I present the evidence asked for and you just refuse to even watch it? Very telling it seems...

Not at all. The thing is Quantum Physics/Mechanics isn't new to me. So if someone passes you a new book about addition, and you already know enough about addition to know that 2+2=4, its really a waste of time to invest 40min if someone is using a new book to tell you 2+2=5. Evidence would be a video of someone actually performing said magical feat. At this point, we're just using ideas from Quantum Physics, as if not knowing the boundaries of it somehow means that anything is now possible. That's not what quantum physics actually ever said and I know enough now to know that.

And there have been plenty of... someone called them quacks and that seems good enough... plenty of people who have tried to advance their names and reputations by treating Quantum Physics as if it proves that our reality is fundamentally magic. I actually liked the faux documentary "what the bleep do we know" which you can find on youtube. However, there's a difference between the actual study of Quantum Physics and the parade of "experts" making claims about it when truthfully, all they do is look up information each other puts out. And then they'll record someone like Michio Kaku answering specific questions that they can use, out of context, to advance their own ideas.

Here's a good example:
https://bigthink.com/robby-berman/michio-kaku-believes-in-god-if-not-that-god

So take all the people buzzing about Quantum Mechanics and put their curiosity on the shelf. Science is not about accepting things at first glance. If something seems like magic it's probably not. The issue with Quantum Physics is size and scale. People think their experiments are controlled, but are they controlled on a QUANTUM scale? Quantum computers have to use extremely cold temperatures in order to prevent interference from affecting the computer's calculations. That tells me that interference has to be accounted for as it determines the behavior of these particles. This article shows how the original idea of probabilities with Quantum Physics may be wrong as other physicists are starting to disagree.

https://www.wired.com/2014/06/the-new-quantum-reality/
(note the date: 2014)

So what we know 20 years is going to be different. We'll have a more complete picture. But it's safer to say that the more we understand it the less magical its going to sound and the people looking for magic will become suddenly disinterested in quantum physics and they'll look for something else to try and prove magic exists. I don't want anyone to feel attacked. I just want us to be intellectually honest in our conversations. And that means if someone wants to believe something that is within the realm and context of belief or imaginary things, then I have no objections. But we can't entertain an intellectually dishonest conversation in which we are having a one-sided argument that encourages science to be used and manipulated into saying something it absolutely isn't saying. At that point we lose our credibility as a group and I would very much not like that.

"I believe I can fly" = okay (irrational)
"I can fly on an airplane" = okay (rational)
"I can fly and so can you" = you should expect someone to disagree (irrational posing as rational)

Ugh, don't even get me started on Bohmian mechanics...

Anyway, though, Zealot, I think you're being slightly unfair. This is not a Deepak clone. Radin actually conducted experiments (a few, anyway), and got (some of) them published in peer-reviewed journals (with very small impact factors), too. He is not woo-ing us about quantum physics in general. I'm not saying that his methodology is air tight, and neither are his independent analyzers, but it's refreshingly not the sort of total "quantum is magic" nonsense you'd usually find in discussions like this.

Gisteron wrote: Ugh, don't even get me started on Bohmian mechanics...

Anyway, though, Zealot, I think you're being slightly unfair. This is not a Deepak clone. Radin actually conducted experiments (a few, anyway), and got (some of) them published in peer-reviewed journals (with very small impact factors), too. He is not woo-ing us about quantum physics in general. I'm not saying that his methodology is air tight, and neither are his independent analyzers, but it's refreshingly not the sort of total "quantum is magic" nonsense you'd usually find in discussions like this.

I feel you. But like I said, I have no need to watch it relative to this thread because it is being used (here) to advance the 'woo'. It's kind of like how I mentioned how Michio Kaku is sometimes used to advance people's beliefs. If Radin is not lending credence to "force powers" then is he in this video at least revealing something I don't already know about quantum physics? If so, I'll watch.

Dakini wrote: Thank you for giving me perspective on this! Moderation IS a superpower that is hard to learn OR appreciate...
My Jedi name is Sanskrit. I honor their glorious culture in this way; I have learned so much on wellbeing from them!
By the way, my Jedi name, translated exactly, means:
Padme (also taken from the Star Wars Prequel Saga) means 'lotus'
Aanandha means 'love'
Dakini means 'sky walker', literally!

I know this is off topic, but I am pleased to cross paths with someone else here who has been influenced by the traditions of India. Without being aware of it at first, I was similarly influenced in my first spiritual stirrings as an adult.

JamesSand wrote:

Plus, someone mentioned christain Jedi. I didnt know what htat was and had to find out. well there is an entire section here just for CHRISTIAN JEDI!. so why do the christians get their own section and all their magical stuff just gets accepted as true but when it comes to smething like this I get told its not true and laughte at? what is the difference here?

I was going to answer that with what I believe the answer is, but I've a feeling that won't really help, so how about you answer the question?

Take a moment to think about why there might be a christian jedi section. Don't think too hard, I'm not looking for a specific correct answer, so don't stress - just take a moment to think about it, and give me your thoughts

(The trick is to think of reasons that benefit someone else, not reasons that play into your own motives)?

Here is your section:
https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Metaphysics

https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Metaphysics

https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Metaphysics

No one is laughing at you.



As a Christian Jedi, I can say that THAT is also not something we teach here (Christian Jediism) it's not about true/false. We are having a respectful conversation. It may be possible that laughter is being inferred

In the same way, back in the 90s I used to go by the name Vajhra online.... though I added a h to vajra not to be so bold as to call myself "invincible lightning" :side: Down side turned out to be folk shortened it to 'vaj' :silly:

In Re Christian Jedi, iviewit as different parts of the forum are meant to accommodate different topics... so how something is discussed depends on the context (ie location) it is discussed. For some reason this is in health and physical.