Attachment

Can there be interpersonal relationships completely free of attachment? In ways that don‘t involve completely giving up on a relationship?
Have you ever seen this ... this beast this idea this ... have you seen any one live this example . Have you seen this with your own two eyes in use ?

I would say that if you find attachment a bitch then you are doing it wrong. At the very least you are approaching it with the wrong attitude. I embrace attachment, it gives me strength and challenges me to grow and be better. I move forward because of my attachments not in spite of them.

Cyan Sarden wrote: Coming to think of it, I might be maintaining relationships with some people only because I‘m afraid of being alone.

A lot of really non-pathetic people share that fear - without it, a lot of industries out there wouldn't be able to survive. I've found that - for me - underneath the fear of "being alone" there are deeper fears about what being alone would mean, or signify, and mostly in the opinions of others (ie - that I'm worthless, that there is something wrong with me, etc.) When I separated those fears out from the state of being alone, I found that I really like being alone - between my art, music, scholarship, training, writing and all the other things my muses are endlessly pushing me to do, I need a lot of time away from people to develop those skills. I really only needed to believe that those joys were worth investing in to start spending more time on my own bliss and less on distractions or substitutions. It was only when I ran into the reminders of the messages that are constantly pushed in society about people who don't fit the "happy couples" script that I started to feel fearful about solitude, and tried to find something or someone to belong to, regardless of how onesided or even harmful those relationships may have been. On a happy note, I find that age really increases one's "Vitamin Don't Give a D" level and it gets easier to go my own way all the time.

So let's put this into perspective...

First, many people think that a relationship is something that you work on. Little do they realize, a relationship is something that works on them. The relationships we hold with other people have the nature of bringing out the most intimate, personal, and therefore sometimes ugly aspects of who we are - things that are buried quite deep down and that only those we are closest to are able to bring out of us. It is through those surfaced aspects of us that we are able to be the most honest about things we have to work on, where we can improve, and how we truly feel about someone/something.

In this same way, I think attachment is actually an important part of this process. It is a catalyst for helping the truest most honest parts of ourselves be able to surface for us to see and I think its through that opportunity that we can learn the most about who we really are, especially in times that we would otherwise want to lie to ourselves. The state of our attachment can tell us a great deal about where we our in our lives and in our understanding of love toward ourselves most importantly, but toward others just as easily. Having a very heavy attachment can show us a plethora of fears, worries, and insecurities that we might need to face. Having someone there who understands this I think is important. Whether or not that person is the object of that attachment, I'm not too sure about (It probably depends on the case). A light attachment can show us that we do have securities about ourselves in one way, but if that attachment is too light, it could tell us that we might be too disconnected from something that we need a connection to. The thing is, we often need an outside perspective to be able to spot this for us because of one or more of several reasons, whether that be that we are too chicken shit to face what comes out, or we dont' know how to identify it (from either our subjective perspective and/or just a lack of information as to what to look for).

I think it is all quite normal for everyone. It's not a matter of if one is attached, but a matter of how we know how to handle that attachment - THAT is the hard part.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: I would say that if you find attachment a bitch then you are doing it wrong. At the very least you are approaching it with the wrong attitude. I embrace attachment, it gives me strength and challenges me to grow and be better. I move forward because of my attachments not in spite of them.

I agree, that attachments can be good and can help one achieve their goals. My attachments to my goals in life are, after all, the reason I move forward. I have dreams for my future that I am attached to.

But what about negative attachments? Addictions can hold people back, and usually do. Approaching, say, an alcohol addiction with a different attitude won't make it any different than it is. If it starts holding you back, you need to either allow it to continue to do so or you need to sever it. Another attachment is the interpersonal one. Attachment to family could stop someone from achieving their life dream, and may involve having to suffer with the severance or their disapproval in order to be happy and the best version of yourself. Would you not agree?

Arisaig wrote: I agree, that attachments can be good and can help one achieve their goals. My attachments to my goals in life are, after all, the reason I move forward. I have dreams for my future that I am attached to.

But what about negative attachments? Addictions can hold people back, and usually do. Approaching, say, an alcohol addiction with a different attitude won't make it any different than it is. If it starts holding you back, you need to either allow it to continue to do so or you need to sever it. Another attachment is the interpersonal one. Attachment to family could stop someone from achieving their life dream, and may involve having to suffer with the severance or their disapproval in order to be happy and the best version of yourself. Would you not agree?

Yes I absolutely agree. There is nothing wrong with any attachment in and of itself, but what we must be vigilant of is attachment that evolves to be detrimental to that pursuit forward. Love your spouse or family with all your heart, draw on them for strength and guidance and support. And if you lose them, mourn them unconditionally. And when that is done use that experience and memory as an attachment for a source of strength and joy for having had them in your life as you move on to new relationships.

When it comes to something like alcoholism its important to realize that you will never be free of that attachment but you can handle it in a healthy manner. Get help when you need it and build the proper support system to keep you in a good place. These become your passions in this attachment that replace the booze itself.

If a marriage goes bad we need to realize that growth is stagnated and we need to break that attachment and instead find strength in the potential the future holds for new stronger and more healthy relationships. When we find ourselves between goals and family we need to make a decision as to which one takes priority in our lives. If it is family we need to be willing to accept the consequence that our goals will suffer. If it is not family but the goals we need to be willing to accept the consequences that family will come second to the pursuit of those goals. And then move forward in whatever capacity we choose, with unbounded passion and without remorse to the decision we made.

I feel people have become a bit obsessed with the idea of attachment due to the way Buddhism has been portrayed in the media. The Buddhist monk is always shown as supremely wise and supremely powerful while they meditate isolated from the world.

People tend to forget that the isolation of the monk is so he can devote his entire energy into his mission (seeking enlightenment, protecting a temple, etc.).

So, there is no dettachment for the sake of dettachment, but only in function of how it serves/hinders our true will (i.e. the worthwhile mission to which we choose to devote ourselves - our supreme attachment).

The tricky part is learning to tell between true will, and fear-induced response. In the context of a relationship, posession tends to be fear induced, whereas love is willfull, and free. That's where the whole quote about plucking a flower / watering a flower comes in.

Manu wrote: I feel people have become a bit obsessed with the idea of attachment due to the way Buddhism has been portrayed in the media.

Lol, the ironic attachment to attachments. ;P

Manu: there is no dettachment for the sake of dettachment

That's something I really like, well said. There are positive and negative qualities to attachment, but the idea that being "detached" from the world, in and of itself, is a good thing, is false. Not because it's good or bad, but simply because it would be an impossibility -- there's always some form of attachment that occurs, even if it's the attachment to the importance of rules against attachment. But why are we attaching or detaching from something, that's where things get interesting.

I dont know if this was hypothetical or personal or something youve observed. And i have no idea how much of what i say will apply to you, Cyan, or be useful for you. I am speaking from my own life experiences and I hope something is helpful, but it may not be. Best wishes either way.

Cyan Sarden wrote: ....All of a sudden, attachment really is a bitch. It‘s a burden. It‘s life destroying, holding you back, making you profusely unhappy and taking down the person you‘re attached to with it.....

When attachment can be described this way there is usually some personality issue/s going on underneath it. Insecurity is a big one. So what are the roots of insecurity? When insecure or immature people attach to (or i should say "latch onto") others, its a stifling, suffocating, smothering, demanding kind of attachment. Its unhealthy because its founded on a need for validation. We must validate ourselves: no one else can do it for us. The other person in these relationships is actually expendable, in the sense that anyone else who is willing to indulge our attachments and demands would serve the purpose just as well. Which is one of the reasons that its easier to replace people than to "get over" them.

Which is itself an empowering concept: whatever the "need" is that the other person is filling, theres someone else out there who can take up the same role. Its easy to feel like the person is "my last chance" but really, theyre not. We can find someone else.

But! If we are looking to some other person to do something for us that we need to be doing for ourselves, we are just going to flit from one doomed relationship into another, making unfair demands on whoever is gullible or lonely or insecure, or controlling! enough themselves, to allow us (crazy lunatics that we are) to latch onto them in the first place. And if they are just a little bit more independent than we are, we'll be under their thumb in no time flat.

Its a tough situation. Ive been there! It took (among other things) getting my guts torn out and my spirit ground into dust by a cold hearted bitch for me to figure it out lol
Everything im saying here is the result of lessons learned through pain

....Can there be interpersonal relationships completely free of attachment? In ways that don‘t involve completely giving up on a relationship?

Great question!
Attachment is a natural part of any deep connection. So, no, unless youre a psychopath who doesnt reallly connect to others. But it is possible to build up your own life and to develop your own personality in such a way that you know that you can survive the loss of others.

Having a social life that is independent of that person is very important. We dont need 2000 facebook friends or "BFF's" but we do need to have a couple of different people separate from the "attachee" who we trust and respect, and who we can spend time with. And i mean people who arent mutual friends. Mutual friends often get pulled into either taking sides, or having to refuse to take sides, both of which result in hurt feelings. But of course we have to work with what weve got.

The most important thing is to be actively living your own life in an evolving and personally meaningful way. Having personally meaningful goals and aspirations. Devotion to things that you personally believe are enhancing to you and specific to you as an individual, and doing things to contribute to the world that you feel you are equiped for and that you feel are valuable. Strengthening your own capabilities and resources, and providing some kind of service (that you respect) to others. Improving yourself and improving the world.

If you can look at your own life and honestly say "yeah im really doing both of those things to the best of my potential" then that will go a long way towards being able to let go of someone, or just allow them their space. Or, this is what it took for me to be able to do that, anyway. I know my life has meaning, and no one else but myself is required. Im able to open up a little space in my life for someone else, but i dont need anyone to be provide a center or focus to my life, because my life already has it.