- Posts: 2134
Is this how Jedi should act?
Me: Maybe in the future, refrain from {action I perceived as rude, removed to maintain anonymity} when a new person asks something. This is precisely what turns people away especially when it is said by a knight.
Knight: then maybe they can take 2 minutes to read the front page so sorry I offended your sensibilities...
Me: It is just a click away, bit there's no need to be rude to someone's that's new. In fact, doing so actively pushes newcomers away, which is something that is harmful to the future if the Temple.
Knight: well your interpretation of rude is not exactly my interpretation. When someone asks multiple times the same question because they can't simply read the front page, I'm not too concerned if they stick around. not everyone here is going to do as you wish, or how you see fit...
Me: Remember the Jedi doctrine.
Teaching 12: Jedi believe that love and compassion are central to their lives. We must love and care for each other as we must love and care for ourselves; by doing this we envelop all life in the positivity of our actions and thoughts. We are providers and beacons of hope.
And one of the Maxims:
Nobility: To act with honour. -- A Jedi does not engage in petty, mean or otherwise dubious activities. Acting with stature and distinction influences others, offering a compelling example of what can be achieved by those who follow Jediism. Am I in the wrong here? Is this place not what I thought it was? I want honest answers. I really don't know what to do here.
Knight: do you know who wrote the doctrine? Lol do you know anything about the people who wrote that?
Me: Why do you feel that you don't need to follow one of the paths you made? Oaths*
Knight: you don't know squat about the history of this place so I suggest you stop while you're ahead in all do politeness....
Me: Is it too much to ask for you to follow an issue you made as a Knight? Oath**
Knight: easy for you to sit there and point judge when you don't do squat here. answer the question do you know anything about the people that wrote that Doctrine? and yet you're so quick to quote it...
I'm not going to chew with you, you don't know who wrote that Doctrine you don't know if they use the doctrine while writing policy and you don't know the history of this place. you need to do your research before you start pointing fingers and judging...
Me: All I want is for you to not actively push new people away. I would expect the same from me.
The fact is that we are going to get the same questions over and over again and we should all work to give answers with compassion and if we cant then we should not bother to answer at all.
Knight of the Order
Training Master: Jestor
Apprentices: Lama Su, Leah
Just a pop culture Jedi doing what I can
I'm not here to validate you, and shouldn't be the goal of a Jedi. If your not here to be challenged and grow as a result, if your easily offended and/or looking for a "safe place" this isn't it, and you would do well to look elsewhere...
Focus, Knowledge & Wisdom are also a part of that Doctrine you continue to throw in my face, remember that before you preach next time please...
Edit: I started this thread, not to point fingers, but to see if I should stay here or not.
Nami, I think it really depends on the Jedi. And also how well you know the Jedi.
When I read the discussion as being between yourself and an anonymous knight, I must admit to thinking it quite out of character of what I imagine a knight to be (though as Hatter said, we all have our days). And I personally would not speak like that to you were I a knight.
That being said, once I knew who the knight in question was, my opinion of the conversation has changed considerably. Some people are, quite naturally, significantly more blunt than others. When you add in Zenchi's past as a sith, it makes even more sense for the bluntness. Though I understand this bluntness can be difficult to deal with, I've had a few pretty strongly worded 'debates' with Zenchi myself in the past :laugh: I don't think it was his intention to offend anyone. Zenchi encourages people to be their best all the time. He just doesn't do this by being 'nice', he does it by pushing them to think for themselves, rather than being spoon-fed.
With regards to the doctrine elements you quote. I guess they are open to interpretation. One can be loving and caring without being overly nice. When a parent tells their children off they do it out of love for them. The 'engagement in petty behaviour' is likewise open to how one interprets things.
I see the points you make, and I think them fair and reasonable. But I also know Zenchi, and he's not necessarily being 'mean' to people because he can't be bothered with them, or because he wants them to bugger off, but because he's trying to help let them find their own way.
- Knight Senan'The only contest any of us should be engaged in is with ourselves, to be better than yesterday'
Nami wrote: There is a time and place for everything. Anything that pushes people away is not becoming of a church. Thus why I asked the question. I didn't and still don't want to discuss specifics. I just want to know if this is a place where I can be proud of saying that I'm a part of.
Any actions that pushes people away? Do you mean that literally? I sincerely ask this because that would mean every church is unbecoming of the title. To have standards of behavior pushes some away, to have no standards pushes some away, to make people work for rank pushes some away, to give rank away easily pushes some away, to accept many views pushes some away, to not tolerate some views pushes others away, etc etc. Do you see how its a no-win situation with that standard?
While I think that we should generally strive to be helpful and kind in our wording it gets easy to become frustrated with hearing the same things day in and day out. Now as I said earlier I think Jedi should compassion where we can, we are as my own Master says Practicing Jedi not Perfect Jedi. We will all stumble and we will all have human failings/frustrations.
In keeping with our creed try to understand before being understood. For both sides of this. By that I mean we have shown we agree with and understand why you feel as you do. Or at least I feel I have. Now I ask you to try to see it from the other side as to how seeing the same question asked at least 10 times a week could possibly make you want to scream to look at the dang FAQ.
Knight of the Order
Training Master: Jestor
Apprentices: Lama Su, Leah
Just a pop culture Jedi doing what I can
Edit: Yes, no one's perfect which is the reason why I messaged him privately. So we can strive to be better. I've seen way too many people pushed away from here already, and I haven't been here that long.
Nami wrote: Pushing people away by being rude is different than pushing people away because they don't want to do the work to better themselves.
Rudeness is often subjective and how you read it as Brick said often depends on how you know the person. It can also be tinted by how you feel at the moment, how you yourself would mean the words if you typed them like that etc. Now again I stress I agree with the idea of being kind and helpful no matter how frustrated we are.
But I also ask you to try to understand that people might not always mean things as you read them and that it can get very frustrating to answer the same thing over and over when that is what our FAQ was designed to help with. While it may be the jobs of Knights and other leadership roles to help people with questions when we put forward tools to help you find the knowledge for yourself and people appear not to use them it can be annoying. And over time our responses can come off as rude/blunt/harsh etc when really we are just trying to point people to the area that they can find the information and much more by themselves. Does that make sense so far?
Edit due to previous post edit LOL
This path is not easy and often people come here seeking healing. While we strive to help those that need it we also cannot always tip toe around things and we will all come off as harsher than intended or people will react in ways we did not expect. We cannot control that and often people need to be able to hang on past hiccups if they are to make it as a Jedi. We must be able to deal with misunderstandings or harsh words from time to time
Knight of the Order
Training Master: Jestor
Apprentices: Lama Su, Leah
Just a pop culture Jedi doing what I can
Nami wrote: There is a time and place for everything. Anything that pushes people away is not becoming of a church. Thus why I asked the question. I didn't and still don't want to discuss specifics. I just want to know if this is a place where I can be proud of saying that I'm a part of.
Of course you don't want to discuss specifics, but you want to preach, and post private pms while pointing fingers and judge, and for what?
"something something, Home page & FAQ, something something mumble grumble"
That's what set your knickers in a bunch....
Well Nami, if you knew anything about me or this Temple you'd know that's me being polite. I've risked being banned and having my account deleted over how others have been treated here, I raised the damn roof for the membership here. And no, that doesn't mean I think or feel I am entitled, not at all...
It shows where my priorities are, and if you or anyone else is overly offended by mere words or sentiment, I recommend getting sincere professional help, in all do politeness...
Anyone can fake niceness, anyone can fake a smile, and many do just that. Be wary here Jedi, not everyone here are as they seem. With me, what you see is what you get, and I can't be motivated or bought with a rank bar. I have went out of my way for the membership here, and I continue do so...
A word of advice, care less for words, focus more on a individuals actions, and do not allow others to be detrimental to your path as a Jedi...