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6 years 5 months ago #304486 by FTPC
Replied by FTPC on topic Las Vegas...
there is A question that I have to ask Why did not hotel staff catch him 23 or 32 guns with 10 or 20 clips
How come Hotel staff did not catch this? I would have caught this buy the second or third bag that he brought in?

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6 years 5 months ago - 6 years 5 months ago #304487 by MadHatter
Replied by MadHatter on topic Las Vegas...

FTPC wrote: there is A question that I have to ask Why did not hotel staff catch him 23 or 32 guns with 10 or 20 clips
How come Hotel staff did not catch this? I would have caught this buy the second or third bag that he brought in?


You would? He actually had something like 18 guns and not all rifles I can fit that amount of guns into three duffel bags along with the ammo. You are telling me any person that is staying at a hotel with more than what two bags should be looked into?

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Last edit: 6 years 5 months ago by MadHatter.

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6 years 5 months ago #304489 by J_Roz
Replied by J_Roz on topic Las Vegas...
I've been to Vegas on buying trips with my former boss. Do you know how many bags we hauled to and from our rooms every day while there? There are hundreds of shows just for the retail market going in Vegas every month, using the concept that they should have checked every bag while good intentioned is not possible. It was fun getting on a plane though with each of us dragging six to a dozen bags a piece though.... lol

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6 years 5 months ago #304493 by JamesSand
Replied by JamesSand on topic Las Vegas...

Ok this conversation will go no further if you insist on strawmanning me.


Or if you keep insisting that using violence (for "safety" or any other rationalisation you like) is the same as putting out a fire or using a band aid.



For what it's worth, I am perfectly happy to accept your reasoning. I am quite pragmatic, and I can see how maiming or killing an aggressor (or potential aggressor, or someone who looks at me funny, or someone who has a prettier girlfriend than me) is a solution to a problem as I see it.

Of course, I'm a monster, and the whole point of my adventure into Jediism is to make me less of a monster willing to treat life the same way as I treat a garbage fire - as something inconvenient to be extinguished.


In the end, it probably makes very little difference whether we were the "Good guy" or the "bad guy" - To the best of my knowledge, it's all the same once we're done.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVfrMp_MWw4

FTPC wrote: there is A question that I have to ask Why did not hotel staff catch him 23 or 32 guns with 10 or 20 clips
How come Hotel staff did not catch this? I would have caught this buy the second or third bag that he brought in?


If, for some reason, you thought he was bringing an arsenal in, sure maybe, but bringing bags into a hotel isn't a crime, or even remotely suspicious.

It's not a great avenue of thought to go down - because it ends with (as someone as already said) hotel staff strip searching every guest.

I find security processes tedious enough travelling between countries, I sure as hell don't want to go through them every time I stay at a hotel.

No, not even for a little bit of extra "safety"

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6 years 5 months ago #304495 by MadHatter
Replied by MadHatter on topic Las Vegas...

JamesSand wrote: [
Or if you keep insisting that using violence (for "safety" or any other rationalisation you like) is the same as putting out a fire or using a band aid.


For what it's worth, I am perfectly happy to accept your reasoning. I am quite pragmatic, and I can see how maiming or killing an aggressor (or potential aggressor, or someone who looks at me funny, or someone who has a prettier girlfriend than me) is a solution to a problem as I see it.


Another set of straw men so we are done.I said owning these items has the same goal to preserve life in an emergency not that the acts are the same. I also gave the criteria for proper use of force. You deliberately ignore what is said and twist words. No further point in speaking with you.

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6 years 5 months ago #304496 by
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People have every right to exercise their power to protect their person, property, and associations. Until they no longer feel the need for it..

As someone who wants to maintain the harmony of The Force. We should focus our efforts on exercising violent and destructive energy from our society.

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6 years 5 months ago #304500 by JamesSand
Replied by JamesSand on topic Las Vegas...

No further point in speaking with you.



Depending on what you think the purpose of a conversation is, there was never any point in speaking with me :P

I don't come here to agree with things, I can do that all day for free with myself in my living room. If you had taken a stance of pacifism, I would have asked how you can live with yourself choosing to take no action in the face of other folk's wicked intent.

Nor do I believe we are ever going to agree on an ultimately "Correct" method of using force.

Yes, you told me about the Use of Force Triangle - however unlike the Fire Triangle, this is based less on the needs of (chemical?) reactions to create fire and more as a way for (soldiers?) to decide on a point when they can do Bad Guy Things and still be the Good Guys.

It makes them sleep better at night knowing (before or after the fact) of their decision to use violence that some criteria was met.

I suppose my goal was (somehow two completed unrelated points) - To question your righteousness of your position.


Either way we're both lying to ourselves to get through the day - You leave home armed with (who cares what) "just in case", and I leave home armed with a bullshit philosophy "just in case"

We both really hope we won't have to employ either during the course of our day, but it makes it easier to face the world believing we have a plan ;)

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6 years 5 months ago #304512 by
Replied by on topic Las Vegas...
For the record, I support adding more regulation to the sale and trade of long guns. In my state, for example, long gun sales are not tracked nor is there hardly any paper work. That being said I agree that these gun laws will not stop mass murder.
When you think of deadly school massacres for example you think of Sandy Hook or Columbine. Virginia tech perhaps. What about Bath? 90 years ago at a school in Bath, Michigan, about 20 minutes from where I live, an angry farmer took the lives of 44 people with explosives. Most of those were children. He then went home and killed his wife and livestock before burning down his farm. It remains to this day the deadliest school massacres and it was not done with guns.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/

So let's brainstorm. What can we do to help prevent people from becoming this far gone? How can we heal the hearts and souls of people?

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6 years 5 months ago #304523 by
Replied by on topic Las Vegas...

JLSpinner wrote: So let's brainstorm. What can we do to help prevent people from becoming this far gone? How can we heal the hearts and souls of people?


See....Those are questions I can get behind. Gun ban's has been the hot poilitical topic for years and years and years and look where it has gotten us....more talking about gun bans.

When instead we should be asking - What leads people into using ANY Tool to kill in such a deadly manner.

Personally, I feel as if it is two problems - Environment (The people and culture people are forced to live with) And Schooling (The lack of education and knowledge to help people get out of and/or improve there tough Environments.)

And while these kinds of questions are far more preferable. I will still state - It dosn't matter how hard you work to change things. Evil hearted people will always behave in evil hearted ways.

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6 years 5 months ago #304526 by
Replied by on topic Las Vegas...
No, we will never stop them all. But if even one can be prevented it's worth discussing.

Most of these cases portray the attackers with a few forms of profile. Fanatic, loner, or angered. Perhaps we should take stock of those we interact with. Try to invest time with those whom might fit the bill. Although this is generalizing and stereo typing. I'm just tossing ideas around.

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