Authorities

The question really comes down to who is granting the authority to these people. When I select/vote for the person I am granting authority to, I am way more likely to do what they ask of me without giving them any crap. I accept that cops are a necessary part of law enforcement for my own safety, but if someone is given authority over me without my blessing/permission/agreement, then it becomes a different issue.For example, I don't recognize the authority of my teachers to tell me how to act or what to believe. I expect them to give me the information and let me decide for myself.

I tend to be very patient and respectful with law enforcement on the streets doing their job, but I can promise you if I ever met Jeff Sessions (U.S. Attorney General) in person, I would likely ignore anything he had to say and might be compelled to punch him in the face. The difference is that I choose to live where I do and I respect the people tasked with keeping me safe in my town. I did not select Jeff Sessions and I think he's a hypocritical idiot, so I do not respect him or his authority. Now, as James pointed out, I would still lose the battle against his authority, being that he has the full resources of the U.S;. government behind him and I have, well, a sling shot in comparison. That doesn't mean I respect his authority.

TL;DR answer: I would've respected the local cops and did what I was told while being really annoyed.

If this discussion remains a conversation about the police only, I am going to be disappointed. I generally do what the police tells me. That is not meant to be the question.

Authorities are everywhere, all the time, wherever you go, I usually follow their instructions without knowing if they are "right or wrong". I just don´t follow them when they are obviously harmful. I left out a certain detail here, what if I had told you that some persons had babies in their cars who were starting to dehydrate in the heat of the cars, what would then be your call? Would that change your mind?

In one post I read, "Philosophy is a hobby for me." What use is any philosophy in the world if it is not transferred to real daily life?

I was trying to write about democracy, rather than the police - I "choose" (to some extent) to have a police force which is empowered to direct vehicles on roads. Since I choose that, I think I should also act according to the police power; but write a grumpy letter to get it changed. I do the same with my political authorities - I choose them on the basis of their party manifesto - I write them grumpy letters when they do things I disagree with. I can count on one hand the number of happy supportive letters I've written them

When people don't do what the police ask, they shift the blame onto the citizens; they become hard to influence. Politicians require little to no encouragement to find something or someone to blame for their failings! They are hard to influence with anything other than power in numbers (votes). I can't think of any other authorities who I feel obliged to listen to. Doctors, academics, teachers, I generally respond to based on merit - but I am wary - selecting a handful of folks with whom I disagree but are held in high regard within their professions just so I don't end up re-enforcing my own opinions. Babies dehydrating doesn't change my mind - you just need to let the police know your situation as a parent or guardian. Driving isn't the solution to dehydration - water is.

To my mind it is inappropriate to ask three police officers for water for 500 people, if there is an obvious way out of the situation, and plenty of opportunities to get water 2 km ahead with no visible barrier in sight.

But I don´t want to be "right" here, maybe, what I did was "wrong" in a way, maybe it was not democratic.

But I would probably do so again in a similar situation, and only if it is absolutely safe for me and others.

Imagine a different situation. You see someone drown in a lake that is on private property, you try to help and someone tries to stop you, wearing a badge of some sort and waving his hands to stop you. Would you try to get past that person? Or would you go away and say to yourself "I could do nothing, this authority stopped me from helping."


Once an authority told me to kill a rabbit for an experiment. I disobeyed. And I would do so again, for sure.

There are a lot of these examples, they happen every day, they are not rare. I would have thought a "jedi" doesn´t follow instructions without reflecting on them, but perhaps I am wrong.

I'll do what they say, just because I do not have access to the same depth of information that they do... plus they are responsible for managing the scene and if I don't adhere to their instructions I probably take on responsibility for any result of my actions, in that regard when 'something is up' it might not be the smartest idea to think I know it all and put my priorities above others without the full picture. But if I think I have useful information, or the situation seems so bad as to significant distraction, I will actively inquire as to its nature. As if there is a bloke with a gun holding a hostage at the crash site then the last thing the Police want is people scooting past because they are tired of waiting for the hostage to be recovered alive.... and given a hypothetical example like that, might not have the resources to tell everyone waiting what is going on, or manage the crowd it might attract. My approach assumes a measure of professionalism in the authorities, but does put me at a disadvantage, which for the above reasons seems fair enough to cop

TobiasGeisel wrote: But I don´t want to be "right" here, maybe, what I did was "wrong" in a way, maybe it was not democratic.

But I would probably do so again in a similar situation, and only if it is absolutely safe for me and others.

Imagine a different situation. You see someone drown in a lake that is on private property, you try to help and someone tries to stop you, wearing a badge of some sort and waving his hands to stop you. Would you try to get past that person? Or would you go away and say to yourself "I could do nothing, this authority stopped me from helping."


Once an authority told me to kill a rabbit for an experiment. I disobeyed. And I would do so again, for sure.

There are a lot of these examples, they happen every day, they are not rare. I would have thought a "jedi" doesn´t follow instructions without reflecting on them, but perhaps I am wrong.

There is a time when you may have to choose between your convictions and the local authority. This should never become an excuse to do so because it is convenient. "If you can't stick to your values when challenged, those aren't values. They're hobbies."

In one post I read, "Philosophy is a hobby for me." What use is any philosophy in the world if it is not transferred to real daily life?

Despite my love of ethics, I love silk underwear and fillet steak too.

I am working towards the day I can have both, until then, I have to entertain multiple realities and personalities.


As for (what appears to be) your general disdain for badges (and hats, I love a Hat of Importance)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0d-O2go9Po

TobiasGeisel wrote: Hello friends.

I would like to hear your opinion on a subject. Recently I disobeyed a police officer. The reason I did this was because I was in a traffic jam, where I had already waited for 5 hours. There were two lanes, one to the left and one to the right. There was a space between these lanes, which was marked by some pillars standing in a distance of about 10m, but there was no real barrier. After five hours of waiting the police opened up the left lane for about 20 minutes, but stopped the right lane from proceeding on their way. I could not figure out why, but obviously there was no comprehensible reason for that. So, people got out of their cars and asked the police officers what was going on, but all I could see was that they sent them back to their cars. It was obvious that the road would be closed for a long time after that, perhaps overnight. So people on the right lane started to get very angry, shouting out of their windows, and finally cars in front of me started to break the line and cross over to the left lane. I followed them, although an officer screamed at me to stop. I think, if I hadn´t done so, I probably would have had to stay there for some more hours, perhaps overnight, I did not harm or endanger anyone by doing this, so I ask you: what would you have done? Would you have obeyed the police officer? Or in general: What power do you give authorities over yourself? Do you prefer trusting in the authorities or do you easily question their behavior - or perhaps... capriciousness?

My own practice in motion.
I like to think. I think. I like to be free so I do that which keeps me free.

There is a whole slew of difrent ways to interpret this , none are right or wrong.
Cops ... personal opinion .... I don't go looking for them . I don't do things to let them... look for me ... and as they say and the two never shall meet. Will it , it has but I kept a minumn and kept my ... honor in tact.
Authority... so many difrent definitions. So many possibilities. Do, not do , don't do , do for not doing ... u get the drift....??? Then where and what was the question? I have my "authority in tact and ready , for myself only , I choose my character. My authority usually generates from that , my character and how it will react. Let's just say my call sighn (not fiction)was god of war, if that guy can find a better character and a more in charge way... any one can!

Cicero wrote of the distinction between human law and natural law. Natural law consists of the things we know to be right and just, for example, the just treatment of other people. Human law may or may not conform to natural law. When it does conform, we can adhere to our authorities without any qualms. When it doesn't conform, we have the duty to disobey human law in order to adhere to the greater, natural law.

Conversely, a person can perfectly obey human law while failing to adhere to natural law. In this case, you may be beyond blame legally, but you are not being a good person. I remember an unfortunate incident when I was a hot-headed undergraduate studying this very part of Cicero. It was my habit to put my bag in my favorite room in the college library before I went to breakfast in the dining hall. This room was so tiny that it had only one table and one chair; I loved it because noises like other people whispering or typing on laptops greatly aggravate me. By placing my bag there, I was effectively reserving the entire room for myself when I returned from breakfast.

One morning when I went to put my bag in the room, someone else's library books were already on the desk, along with the required slip with the person's name on it that you had to have when you left books on a desk unattended. Because I had entered at the library's opening time, I knew that those books had been left there the night before. And according to the library rule, no one was allowed to reserve a desk overnight. So I put my bag on the table and went off to breakfast. When I returned, the girl who had taken down the books was sitting at the table, having moved my bag to the floor. I told her that I had reserved the desk. She smiled and said that actually, she had reserved it because her books were there. I, being determined to secure my special room, told her that she couldn't do that per the library rule. We got into a whole argument about it. She said that she was studying for her finals and needed every minute. (This was at Oxford, so the final exam is the ONE test you take in your whole three years there that has any meaning). But I, focused on my goal and having no compassion, took our argument to the librarian. I will never forget the embarrassed look on his face as he listened to me. He had no choice but to admit that, yes, the rule was that you couldn't reserve a desk overnight, so the room was mine. The other girl and I walked back to the room and I watched triumphantly as she picked up her books in frustrated silence. Then I had the room to myself and, within a few minutes, began to feel guilty about what I had done. I ended up writing a pages-long torrent in my notebook about the difference between human law and natural law. In this case, everything I had done was in accordance with the rules of the library (human law), but completely against principles of decency and how I should treat another human being (natural law).

So I guess the point of my long-winded story is that while what is right is sometimes in accordance with what the authorities believe, sometimes it's not. Some of the greatest atrocities in history - the Holocaust, for example - happened when people chose authority/human law over what was right/natural law, in situations when the two diverged.