Authorities

Hello friends.

I would like to hear your opinion on a subject. Recently I disobeyed a police officer. The reason I did this was because I was in a traffic jam, where I had already waited for 5 hours. There were two lanes, one to the left and one to the right. There was a space between these lanes, which was marked by some pillars standing in a distance of about 10m, but there was no real barrier. After five hours of waiting the police opened up the left lane for about 20 minutes, but stopped the right lane from proceeding on their way. I could not figure out why, but obviously there was no comprehensible reason for that. So, people got out of their cars and asked the police officers what was going on, but all I could see was that they sent them back to their cars. It was obvious that the road would be closed for a long time after that, perhaps overnight. So people on the right lane started to get very angry, shouting out of their windows, and finally cars in front of me started to break the line and cross over to the left lane. I followed them, although an officer screamed at me to stop. I think, if I hadn´t done so, I probably would have had to stay there for some more hours, perhaps overnight, I did not harm or endanger anyone by doing this, so I ask you: what would you have done? Would you have obeyed the police officer? Or in general: What power do you give authorities over yourself? Do you prefer trusting in the authorities or do you easily question their behavior - or perhaps... capriciousness?

I was a cop, and my degree is in Emergency Management and Homeland Security- I can think of half a dozen reasons the road might have been blocked and it would not have been apparent to anyone on the ground.

That said:

1) Those cops suck. If I was the one on the ground, you wouldn't have been able to get around my barricade
2) If you had, I'd have your license number and my fellow officers chasing you down.
3) Do you guys not have a way to monitor road closures and the purposes behind them? 0.o Here in the US, we tune into local radio stations and find out what's going on, or might look up information on Facebook, then we all get out of our cars and talk about the events to one another.

Thank you for your reply, I think though, you misunderstood me.

1) There was no barricade.
2) They would have had to follow and chase around at least 20 cars (perhaps way more!), of which I was the 10th or so.
3) I was 400 m behind the accident, no chance, the navigation system (which not only in the US, but also here in Germany have traffic warning systems built in ) could have warned me
and 4) There was no comprehensible reason why people from the right lane shouldn´t have changed lanes! Even though the right lane might have been blocked, that´s the problem.
5) People got out of their cars and talked to one another. That was the reason I knew why the accident happened, and that it would last for hours to repair the damage to be able to fully open the road.

Do you prefer trusting in the authorities or do you easily question their behavior - or perhaps... capriciousness?

"The Authorities", by and large, are just people.

Some of them are jerks, some are not, some allow a "grey" area, some do not, some have had a bad day and want to mess with yours, some have not.

My experience with "Authorities" varies wildly, and (as much as I want to respect the individual) I more or less group them by region

The lads (police) in my shitty little town are pretty chill - I'm not a raging ice addict, so I'm not on their shit list, and if I bust the odd u-ey or what-not, they've got better things to do than worry about it.

(A member here knows my opinion on Melbourne CBD cops)


Bunch of gestapo wannabe jackasses

(Jaywalking fines, really.....)


Maybe the cop in your position was an butthead, or maybe s/he had no effin' idea why the road was closed, was just told to stand there - s/he had sore legs, and empty stomach, and a whole bunch of moody motorists hooting their horns, carrying on, and asking questions they can't answer. - Then, on top of this, half of them start pulling out into a closed lane despite clear communication that (for whatever reason) this was undesirable.



They've been given a job to do - short of them having an attitude problem, if you don't like what they do - take it up with the state (or whichever organisation runs The Law in your town) not the poor bastard just working his shift.



As for your question - what power do I give the "Authorities" over me?

Well, they've got more guns than me so it's a sort of a cost/benefit analysis

Don't get me wrong, I make 'em work for it. (I make everyone work for it. No one wants to deal with socratic method when they just want to get registration papers filed or stamp duties paid or any of the other mysterious bullshit that is "policy" somewhere but no one can actually explain or justify) -

But, when it comes down to it, if it comes down to a severe difference of opinion, I let the [strike]armed gangsters[/strike], uh, [strike]jackboot wearing thugs[/strike], uh, Federal officers of the law win.

Anyway, this never gets not-funny....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71DIT6hYXYo

Thank you for your answer.

I have described the situation in a way that you understood it wrong, sorry. The left lane was not closed. There was no barricade, there was just three police officers standing there between the lanes, no signs, no clear instructions, doing nothing, just when people started to switch the lane, which didn´t seem to be ANY problem, they started getting upset and screamed, but nevertheless, many people did as I did, because we didn´t want to stay there for any longer, we had waited for 5 hours! And what makes people on the left lane any "better", why should they drive when we should not ?

I do not disapprove that person that was the police officer or something, I wasn´t even angry at her, I just didn´t stop, because there was no reason to do so except a person saying so.

But that is not the reason why I am posting this question, I don´t want to be judged. I don´t want to hear what "is" right or "wrong". I asked you, what you would have done and what you in general do with instructions you are given by "authorities". Do you follow them blindly or is there any limit to that?

Wow, this police officer is really patient and polite (the one in the video above)!

Haha, believe me, what I did, was - way! - less significant. I just switched lanes on a clean road where no car was behind me, noone even had to hit the breaks or anything.

I asked you, what you would have done and what you in general do with instructions you are given by "authorities". Do you follow them blindly or is there any limit to that?

My reply is the second half of my post


Anyway, it's a complicated question - some of us here have been The Authority at some point, and we may have had different ways of conducting that role.

I don't expect my instructions to be followed blindly, but I do expect them to be followed.
I'm happy to give my reasons for my instructions, but I don't have the time or wherewithal to debate my reasons until the end of time. I'm a philosopher as a hobby, not a profession - when the job is on, do what I damn well need you to do, or face the consequences.

I will entertain questions, and I will entertain new information (particularly as pertains to safety. We all make bad calls or miss details) - You've got about 30 seconds to raise any obvious concerns and then it's..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEuU64Zt4B0

Yes, I am also an authority most of the time when doing my job, and I am very happy if someone - thinks - before he does what I say, at some point I might make a wrong decision, I always thank people if they remind me I forgot something.

Oh, and you both overestimated my situation by far, there is no way a police car would have "chased me down" for that . I think, the worst thing that could have happened would have been paying 20 Euro or so. I am not talking about a crime here!

Anyway, that´s not what my question is about still, let me ask the question in a different manner.

What makes an authority? What makes a person an authority to you personally?

To me, a badge or a label doesn´t do the trick. A person who is an authority to me should be more skillful or more experienced than I am, or an expert on something I know nothing about. I could not follow an instruction of which I know it is either harming myself or other people.

I generally do what the police ask of me, and then write a grumpy letter about how I think it should have been done better after the fact; after experiencing 100% of being a law abiding citizen. The guys in blue have a written protocol which, if they get enough complaints, they will change. If citizens do not cooperate, some do what they like; if the protocol is not followed; then it doesn't matter what grumpy letters I write afterwards, it'll just be written off and nothing will be changed - we didn't play by their rules, so they can't change the protocol - it might actually work.

That's how a functioning democracy works - people don't place their values of getting home earlier as higher than the communal value of having a police force which enforces the rules we have democratically elected they enforce in a manner which also, to some extent, is under our selection. When we choose our own way, we give ourselves more "votes" in the system than others - we create inequalities.

Is it a costly system? Yes... But patience, equality, justice - these are the victors; and ultimately the process of handling accidents changes for the better, and that happens faster than when people just do what is in their own, personal, best interests*.

I wasn't the person waiting 5 hours in a car. That would have tried my patience too... but I would probably have thought the guys merging lanes were the real problems, not the police people - they would just be doing their job; and I'd rather have 5 hours with my CDs, and sharing my travel water and sweets with other travellers, than standing directing traffic and being sworn at. I don't think I respect police people more or less than other people - I would certainly disobey and move for mass civil disobedience if someone's rights were really being infringed. But I genuinely think road travel is a privilege for which we pay with both tax money and time taken; for maintenance and emergency interruptions. This is just one occasion of the latter - and next time I'd take the train

*the maths shows this is not true, but in a situation where you want maths to solve the real life problem, there should be no police presence at all...