Christian Extremism is Right There [Read first post]

Yes, Christian Extremism is there. But so is Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, and Atheist extremism. Heck, I'd say Jediism has its own brand of extremism. And extremism is such a vague word, it can be anything from a vocal minority to an entire violent social movement, to a few passionate members.

But what are you going to do about it? And I don't mean that passively. I mean what are YOU going to DO about it?

Sit here and argue? Will that solve the issue, or simple serve to create more division between "us" and "them"?

„But what are you going to do about it? And I don't mean that passively. I mean what are YOU going to DO about it?”

Is there a prove by action required to ask a question? Not a passive prove but one of the questioner actively working to fix what they are questioning? Because that’s what asking this of Jamie feels like to me. There is a fair chance I just misunderstood the intention of that sentence and if I did please tell me but I for one like to figure things out before springing to action and just doing something about it for the sake of doing something.

“Will that solve the issue, or simple serve to create more division between "us" and "them"?”

Furthering the divide is as unhelpful as denying it. Duality is a core principle of life and antithesis is as much needed for synthesis as thesis itself. Plus, taking sides in a discussion is actually a valid method: dialectics.

Jamie asked about the Christian characteristics specific to America. About the ideologies ‘seeping in’ (which to me means foreign) into Christianity (even mentioning it could easily be a peaceful religion so clearly it’s not ‘all Christians’). About the different treatment Christians receive from the other religions. Are those not valid?
On the second page Br. John followed up with questions which, at least that’s what I took from them, prompt further understanding of what Christianity is.

I think there are quite a few valid questions that can be answered and a few constructive arguments to be had in this discourse. And I am rather miffed by the perspective of that being quenched.

I'm not suggesting the discussion ought to be quenched, but that people are aware of the greater context of what they are saying.

Of course there are constructive discussions, and I was aiming my post mostly to those who are complaining about what Christianity is doing, without offering solution.

This is a very complicated topic, I'm going to try to answer it as simply as possible.

For starters, I feel like there is a lot of stereotyping going on. Stereotyping of Christians, stereotyping of Texans, and surprisingly Californians. I didn't expect that one :laugh:. Stereotyping only adds to the divide between people. I believe that we need to be more focused on what makes us the same.

If roughly 50% of the population of the US is Christian (didn't look it up but it was posted somewhere in here and I'm rolling with it) then there are A LOT of people who aren't like this. There are numerous conversations at this Temple about how not all Muslims are bad yet there seems to be this backlash against Christianity as a whole. I get that many here have bad experiences with Christianity but we can't group them all together. And saying that we aren't grouping them together and then ranting about Christians using just the phrase Christians as their definer is still grouping them together.

Those comments in the OP are terrible. I believe that those people need prosecuted for something. There has to be something they can be charged with. They literally made threats of death against people. It doesn't matter why or who they are, that's not cool.

I think the Satanic group is doing the right thing by trying to start that club. It seems as if they don't really want the club so much as to point out why they don't want the other clubs and this is a good way to do it, as long as they can stay safe. Public schools should be separated from religion, it's that simple.

That said, I think government should be separated from religion too. Take references to God back off the money and back out of the Pledge since neither one had those references until the 50's. But I'm not too worked up about it, if it stays it honestly won't affect me much.

Extremism of any kind is something to be careful of, that includes being extremely against extremism.

With regard to the OP, this really has very little to do with Christianity and everything to do with Identity and Ego.

We identitfy ourselves by labels, create a static identity for a static self, and we protect it, often with violence. I am this label, and these are the things my label thinks, these are the things my label does. If my children are like me then I can use that to show I have chosen the right label, that my Identity is correct. And now, my ego feels safe.

Everyone is subject to this type of thinging. All of us, though perhaps not to the point of threats of murder. We are all subject to creating a clearly delineated, stand-alone, static sense of who we are. Even a casual observation of the world tells us that nothing stays in one state forever. Some things stay one way for a relatively long time (relative to a human life span), but everything changes. And so do we. And this thought can be very challenging.

While my initial reaction to them might be anger or frustration, on second thought, I grieve for them. They are terribly afraid that they might be wrong about themselves, the world, and their place in it. So terribly afraid that even this modest challenge moves them to threats of violence. Because of heir fear, they increase their own burdens and the burdens of people around them. Anything to protect a fragile ego.

Yes, it seems to be happening through the lens of Christianity and the fairly conservative culture of West Texas, but it's really just people choosing a label and trying to feel safe behind it. We all do that to one degree or another.

Thanks for the clarification Leah

So another question from a foreigner for American citizens:
As Goken stated, god is already in the pledge and on the money, how secular is the US?

I’ve only been there on a roadtrip for seven weeks during which I did not encounter overly zealous people, so I really am curious about how this is perceived by people living there.

Akkarin wrote: How do you get from a shift happening to Christianity being ruined? There are other brands of Christianity.

When the focus shifts from what Jesus said to who Jesus was (or was claimed to be), the focus also shifts from humanity of Christ to the divinity of Christ. When one ceases to focus on the humanity of Christ, one has the potential to lose sight of the teachings that better the lives of others in the here and now; one has the potential to lose focus on the poor, the hungry, the sick, the grieving, the homeless, etc. When one focuses on the divinity of Christ, one has the potential to cease seeing Christ's message as attainable: what can we mere mortals do to be like a Perfect God, when our own scriptures say we cannot be anything like? Why believe we can make a difference when we are so clearly unworthy by comparison?

This combination of shifts has done a lot to reinforce in American Christianity a Divine Being who taught amazing things we don't bother to implement, yet Whose approval we still religiously seek.

When these conflicts arise (and they seem to often enough), I always end up asking myself when we decided to remove personal responsibility from the equation. I'll attempt to explain.

(TL:DR version: Worry about your own house and your own children and let your neighbors do what they will do. Picking a fight with a bully will encourage him to act like a bully. Be better than the bully.)

If the feeling is that Christian Extremism (or any extremism) is silencing any opposing opinion or brainwashing our children, we have to ask ourselves how this situation came to be and what we should do about it. The Satanists are establishing these ASSCs as a direct response to existing Christian after school clubs, but how did those Christian clubs begin in the first place, and whose children are they brainwashing?

I suspect that the Christian clubs exist because there is a vocal majority of Christians in that community who believe there is a need for them so they made them happen. These same Christians are sending their children to these clubs after school. The "brainwashing" they may receive as a result is no different than what they are likely already receiving at home and at church on Sunday. If the vocal majority in the community was Satanists, I imagine the same thing would happen, but with Satanic clubs.

As I understand it, nobody is forced to join these clubs, whether or not there is real or perceived institutional or government support of them. If I'm not Christian, my child wouldn't join. If I want to raise my child as Jedi, I'm going to have to do it at home. It is a simple reality that Jedi are not the vocal majority, but I can take personal responsibility for raising my child to understand what that means. I can teach them to find their own way without having to compete with everyone else for equal attention. I can also teach them that sometimes Jedi will also act like jackasses, and we don't have to support or associate with them when they do.

The fact that some people may disagree with the vocal majority or feel like they are being treated unfairly does not mean they should feel entitled to reasonable treatment from that majority when they dissent. When you fight the Vatican, or City Hall, or "The Man", you should expect that you are going to get some violent and unreasonable responses. It doesn't make it right, but it is a reality of human interaction. Some people will behave like idiots or bullies, but that is an indication that they do not believe in acting responsibly as an individual. What faith they choose to practice is irrelevant. They will behave inappropriately, regardless. That does not mean that the appropriate response is to meet them with equally inappropriate behavior.

“Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions.” –Epictetus

I’d like to point out something I think may be missing, and that is that this is the internet. People take freedom of speech to the “extreme”. Am I saying that it is correct? Absolutely not! I want to point out again that not all Christians are as the individuals highlighted in the OP. Putting on a label of Christian or Muslim, Black or White, Peace Officer or whatever does not mean that one necessarily holds up the banner of all the good that that label may stand for.

I’d like to publically apologize to anyone who is under the impression that this is what my belief stands for. I’m not going to argue, because the proof is there in black and white that there are some who use the label without living the teachings.

Really, all I can do to do any sort of good in this situation is deal with what I can control.
To this end, I’d like to ask, “Is there anything that you would like me to do? Can I write a letter to my congressman for you? If so, what should it say? Would you like to talk to me about Christianity as I understand and live it? What do you need from me…a Christian?"

Since there is no stipulation here as to what makes someone a Christian (other than their saying they are one) - how does anyone know what we're talking about?

Because in my book the mealy mouth lunatic idiots mentioned in the OP are not Christians. Anti-Christians they are. If Jesus showed up at their door asking for directions he has a good chance of getting shot. I shudder to think what they'd do if he asked for something to eat or if they could spare an old coat.

Someone telling me they're a Christian tells me next to nothing about what they believe. I know Atheists that are far more Christlike than many others I know who call themselves Christians.

Y'all following me here?



So close to Jesus my faucets run Hot, Cold and Wine.