Christian Extremism is Right There [Read first post]

So not a systematic behavior but case-to-case cherry picking? Then the question stands why apparently (some) Americans are prone to picking the same cherries and loudly proclaim them (which is, I think, exactly what Jamie initially asked?)

Anyhow, thank you for clearing this up for me Adi

It's a lot easier to just "follow the leader" than formulate your own systematic theology — indeed, this part is what trips up a lot of seminarians, to say nothing of ordinary laypeople. The same tropes and memes used for sinister purposes today have been used in American Christianity for centuries, dating back literally to the original European settlements. Fundamentalism is new (about a hundred years old), but other things are not.

These are questions for all posters here and anyone interested.

Most important - What makes a person a Christian (without counting them saying they're one)?

And then -

Did any of the writers of the Gospels in the New Testament know Jesus in person or witness any of the events about which they wrote?

When did The Bible first exist in the form we know it today and how was its makeup decided?

What are the oldest surviving writings in the New Testament and are any of them the originals?

If the books of the New Testament were re-arraigned according to the date they were written (oldest to newest) what would the New Testament order be?




So close to Jesus communion tastes like leftovers.

no offence intended, but, To answer:
. The Bible was written by a bunch of creative desert dwelling scribes who lived in Saudi Arabia
. They wrote a fictional sci-fi/fantasy book about a man who may have existed but we will never really know
. The book was a hit
. Jesus was a charismatic Arab who forced his beliefs on others
. 'forgiving' God had to forgive humanity and the only way he could do this, for some reason, is by torturing and murdering his son
. 49 % of Americans believe literally in Adam and Eve, a shocking figure that you can not ignore.
. Now i feel like ranting about this crap in the rants thread.

Jamie, is this topic about them? Or what you are feeling toward them?

Lykeios wrote: I'm not surprised at the reaction of the Texan or that this is the reaction of Christians. I am surprised at the reaction of the other people that seem to be in California. California should be better than that. I thought we were a progressive and open-minded state. Apparently we aren't.

Stereotyping.

Adi wrote: Christ's teachings

Are they Christ's teachings?

Silas Mercury wrote: no offence intended

Were you thinking about offence when writing your post?

Partly. I am annoyed that Christians hold too much power. Reserving a space in the Houses of parliament for 12 bishops u may as well reserve 12 places for just white men. it's unfair.

x57z12 wrote: As a closing I have a question to anyone who would be willing to fill this gap of knowledge for me: I always thought, that the words of Christ were peaceful and that most of these odd believes stem from ‘added’ books to the bible of other prophets – at any rate words not attributed to Christ himself. Am I wrong with this?

Paul ruined Christianity.
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Br. John wrote: Most important - What makes a person a Christian (without counting them saying they're one)?

Adherence to the teachings attributed to Christ.
[hr]

Silas Mercury wrote: no offence intended...

That phrase almost always preceeds something intended to offend.

• The Bible was written by a bunch of creative desert dwelling scribes who lived in Saudi Arabia

  One might actually disagree here, as the biblical borders of Yisrael were only partly in modern-day Saudi Arabia. The rest of it consisted (scholars suggest) of modern day Israel, Turkey, Jordan, and parts of Iraq, Syria, and Egypt. Saying where a particular author of one of the original forms of the canonical texts was from is a guessing game at best, since none of the books are known with certainty to be associated with their supposed author. This means that the actual authors of the text are still unknown, and pinning them down to a definite location without so much as knowing their name is a futile gesture.

• They wrote a fictional sci-fi/fantasy book about a man who may have existed but we will never really know

  There are three assumptions in this particular statement that must be examined if we are to determine its factual accuracy:
  • The assumption that the Bible is "fictional."
  • The assumption that it is a "sci-fi/fantasy" work.
  • The assumption that Christ's historicity is impossible to verify
  
  The problem with the first assumption is that there are rather very specific definitions of what is "fictional." In general, these definitions hinge on the intent of the author. Fiction requires an intentional fabrication of something that is never intended to be taken as truth, and is intended to be consumed for entertainment purposes. If a work tells imaginary events witnessed by imaginary people, intentionally telling a tale that is known to be untrue, then it is fiction. Religious works do not qualify as fiction because they are not generally intentionally fabricated, nor are they generally intended to be devoid of truth, and rarely are they ever read for entertainment. Many holy scriptures from many faiths include outright fabrication, but these are typically intended to be educational--therefore, containing some measure of truth. Aesop's fables, for example, are fictional in that they are untrue, but are generally not considered proper fiction because their intent is not to entertain, but rather to educate by way of analogy and metaphor.
  
  We can easily tackle the "sci-fi/fantasy" assumption by stating that both of those are subgenres of fiction; namely, they are classified as "speculative fiction," which is based on speculation about certain alterings of reality, rather than on the relatable, day-to-day sort of experiences that most individuals have. Outside of modern urban fantasy, no sci-fi or fantastic genre exists that does not, in whole or in part, completely subvert the daily lived experiences of mankind and replace them with more fantastical elements. Speculative fiction requires an intentionally fictional (i.e., imagined and known to be untrue) setting in order for it to be such. Furthermore, "sci-fi" demands that science (rather than magic) play a very pivotal role in the ordering of the setting itself, of which we find nearly none in books of faith. Religious texts may contain similar elements as fantasy works, but they also generally fail to subvert experienced reality to a degree that would be required of them to fit into the genre. Also, as we've previously determined, religious works may be fictional, but that does not make them fiction, thereby disqualifying them from being subgenres of fiction as well.
  
  The subject of the historicity of Christ is one that is beyond doubt in any serious scholar at this point, because Christ is mentioned in other works. So, either the Christ was a popular character, popular enough to have cameos in the works of Josephus and Tacitus, or he existed in some form as an actual human being. Few scholars subscribe, at this point, to the theory that Jesus was not (at least in some regard) a historical person.

• The book was a hit

  It actually wasn't a "book" at that point. It was an untold number of disparate and distinct texts that were not interrelated in any appreciable way. And it wasn't a "hit" in any way at all that matters globally until the conversion of Constantine.

• Jesus was a charismatic Arab who forced his beliefs on others

  Actually very few of his teachings support the idea of forced conversion in any way at all, and Christ (according to Scripture) gave zero figs about teaching to anyone that didn't fully intend to listen to him. Contrast this with, say, Dawkins or Hitchens or Maher, who spew their rhetoric and then subsequently shame anyone who disagrees.

• 'forgiving' God had to forgive humanity and the only way he could do this, for some reason, is by torturing and murdering his son

  There are theological reasons that this makes sense, but I can't be arsed to discuss them with someone who has no desire to listen.

• 49 % of Americans believe literally in Adam and Eve, a shocking figure that you can not ignore.

  Sources or GTFO.

Now i feel like ranting about this crap in the rants thread.

Rant all you'd like. Do, however, attempt to be informed of a thing before you attempt to dismantle it in the public viewing of people who are rather fond of it, though. It will serve you better in the long term to educate yourself about the belief systems of others in a genuine fashion, not in the tone that seemed present in the message I read.

Silas Mercury wrote: Partly. I am annoyed that Christians hold too much power.

Doesn't what they do with power matter more?

steamboat28 wrote: Paul ruined Christianity.

Given we have no knowledge how Christianity may have turned out differently, how can you know Paul ruined it?

Akkarin wrote: Given we have no knowledge how Christianity may have turned out differently, how can you know Paul ruined it?

The Pauline epistles seem to have a profound focus on the personage of Christ rather than the teachings of Christ. To borrow from Tim Rice, Christ began to matter more than the things he said. That shift of focus is something that is evidenced by Paul's praising of Christ, but constant contradiction of Christ. The manifestations of said focal shift directly led to the brand of American Christianity that loves America more than Jesus and guns more than the poor.

steamboat28 wrote:

Akkarin wrote: Given we have no knowledge how Christianity may have turned out differently, how can you know Paul ruined it?

The Pauline epistles seem to have a profound focus on the personage of Christ rather than the teachings of Christ. To borrow from Tim Rice, Christ began to matter more than the things he said. That shift of focus is something that is evidenced by Paul's praising of Christ, but constant contradiction of Christ. The manifestations of said focal shift directly led to the brand of American Christianity that loves America more than Jesus and guns more than the poor.

How do you get from a shift happening to Christianity being ruined? There are other brands of Christianity.