Sticks and Stones May Break My Bones...

Adi wrote:

Snowy Aftermath wrote: It's so vague that it practically makes no sense.

No offense, but I think we all just need to lighten up a little.

It's Saturday, I'm going outside. Bleh.

I wasn't there, but based on that post (and basically hearing the same thing repeated to me after the fact in chat), I can understand what happened. Someone was causing trouble. Someone reported that person. Someone told the person who did the reporting that they weren't "acting like a true Jedi." The only thing missing is the names, and I don't think we need the names and the public shaming that would accompany that.

That and similar instances in this community over the past few weeks and months (someone said the same thing to me, after all) are presumably what prompted Kit's post.

Fair enough. My brain works in pictures, so I have trouble with this-person-that-person stuff as identifiers. It all just looks like a mass of confusing arms and legs poking out of a big ball of panic in my head. It's a mosh pit minus the fun :side:

Thanks.

tzb wrote: How about restricting it to Members Only, or view only for Guests, and then hold anyone using it to the same standards as anyone using the forum?

That sounds like a practical solution.

I know I avoid the chatroom because I got skewered in there one time. It'd be nice to feel safe

tzb wrote: Sorry you got hurt here, Kit. You are a valued and valuable voice in the community, and a wonderful Knight. .

Thank you TZB but it wasn't me that was hurt in this last event and the ones directed at me I didn't take to heart. But I do love the kind words

I'm just playing the Knight in Dented Armor here I've heard it often enough that I felt it needed to be brought up in hopes it'll make people more aware of what their words do.

Streen wrote: What Kit said should even have to be said.

Khaos, we're not even talking about "a jedi does this and not that", we're talking about humanity. If we can't even show compassion for each other, how can we hope to extend that compassion to those outside our community?

It's a no-brainer. The golden rule: love others as you would have them love you.

Ah, so now we are saying that "humanity does this and not that".

Is it compassionate to coddle?

Perhaps at times.

You can also raise a spoiled child that way.

Love is a strange term to use, because love in itself, judges constantly.

Love, is a judgement, and love, is not always compassionate, or nice.

People love addicts they have to stop enabling and cut out of there life.

They have to make that judgement.

Love, is not without judgement, unless you plan to remove the humanity from it.

Khaos wrote:

Streen wrote: What Kit said should even have to be said.

Khaos, we're not even talking about "a jedi does this and not that", we're talking about humanity. If we can't even show compassion for each other, how can we hope to extend that compassion to those outside our community?

It's a no-brainer. The golden rule: love others as you would have them love you.

Ah, so now we are saying that "humanity does this and not that".

Is it compassionate to coddle?

Perhaps at times.

You can also raise a spoiled child that way.

Love is a strange term to use, because love in itself, judges constantly.

Love, is a judgement, and love, is not always compassionate, or nice.

People love addicts they have to stop enabling and cut out of there life.

They have to make that judgement.

Love, is not without judgement, unless you plan to remove the humanity from it.

I see what you're gettin' at now. No, I don't mean don't judge anybody ever. I don't think we can ever get away from that. I have to judge my own actions and words every day. And the actions of others towards me to decide how I'm going to respond and if they're worth keeping in my life and at what level they're worthy of.

I guess I simply mean there are other ways to call people to task than telling them they don't belong. Perhaps, judge with compassion would be a better way to state it? My Wordsmith is failing me right now.

I mean that it's not anybody else's place to tell me "You're not a Jedi." That's MY choice. Now, when I don't ACT like a Jedi, there are other ways to bring me to heel. "Hey, why did you do this thing?....oh ok, I see your reasoning, but did you think about it this way? Or that it made this person feel this way? Take a break, let me know what you come up with."

It is a shame when newer members find us and are hoping to make this a potential online home for them to grow from, just to be trampled on by certain interactions with people that hold a conflicting social culture to their own.

That said, while this is online, it is a reality we cannot change, no matter how much we try to clench our hand around the forum with restrictions. As far as I can see it, it is a balancing game between the community being too loose and rampant, and too controlled and suppressed. However, what I can see is obviously limited since I am only one point of view among many. The thing is, there is a reason we study the kinds of things we do - to develop a bigger understanding of the nature of this very dilemma we have here to deal with over these forums, and gradually adjust the way we handle it according to that understanding.

Now that THAT is said... there is something funny I see in posts regarding a certain topic among these kinds of threads...

Person 1 conveys idea: "You aren't Jedi if you don't behave this way!"
Person 2 conveys idea in response: "How dare you! A Jedi would never say 'You aren't Jedi if you don't behave like that!'"

This is a common mirror reflection of the same idea being conveyed between both parties. Whether either of them are "Jedi" or not, I'm not really concerned about. Whether either of them are right or not is not relevant. I watch some of these threads with interest just to see who, among this argument, begins catching onto this cycle, and when, and I get curious as to what they do or will learn when they do realize it.

Wow Kit, Gwinn.
We have a Doctrine. We should follow it. I don't really care about the whole definition of "true Jedi" anymore, because all that creates is conflicts and confusion. We all screw up, but you, Gwinn, were the one who decided to make a noble call for justice against the troll, when it could have been worked out peacefully without anyone getting banned. I, too, was shocked, once again, at the OVERWHELMING overreaction everyone in chat had yesterday. We should decide, once and for all, what a Knight is, and that should be through.

A single troll isn't the problem here, it's that it lit a match with everyone about how we treat each other.

What Proteus just described what has been my experience here. We need to get our beliefs straight if we want to be an actual religion instead of a collective group that likes Star Wars. I say this because if you don't honor the Doctrine, what's the point? You get the title Jedi, and even some people refuse that too. The community is awful, the forums are plagued with debates about what a true Jedi is, so I don't understand why people even stay.

I'm not trying to force anyone out, only pointing out that there doesn't seem to be any underlying principles, or reasons why people would want to stay other than 1) They want to improve the site. Or 2) They have actual friends here. In both cases those are not spiritual reasons, so we need to get our act together or we can hardly be called a religion.

EDIT:
When I said I didn't care about the whole definition of true Jedi, I meant when people's personal beliefs conflict.

Ryder wrote: Wow Kit, Gwinn.
We have a Doctrine. We should follow it. I don't really care about the whole definition of "true Jedi" anymore, because all that creates is conflicts and confusion. We all screw up, but you, Gwinn, were the one who decided to make a noble call for justice against the troll, when it could have been worked out peacefully without anyone getting banned. I, too, was shocked, once again, at the OVERWHELMING overreaction everyone in chat had yesterday. We should decide, once and for all, what a Knight is, and that should be through.

A single troll isn't the problem here, it's that it lit a match with everyone about how we treat each other.

What Proteus just described what has been my experience here. We need to get our beliefs straight if we want to be an actual religion instead of a collective group that likes Star Wars. I say this because if you don't honor the Doctrine, what's the point? You get the title Jedi, and even some people refuse that too. The community is awful, the forums are plagued with debates about what a true Jedi is, so I don't understand why people even stay.

I'm not trying to force anyone out, only pointing out that there doesn't seem to be any underlying principles, or reasons why people would want to stay other than 1) They want to improve the site. Or 2) They have actual friends here. In both cases those are not spiritual reasons, so we need to get our act together or we can hardly be called a religion.

May I ask where it is I have not acted in accordance of the Doctrine?

I pointed you out specifically for making this post about how we should accept everyone, yet (although unstated) not try to work things out peacefully if that's an option.

He said the letter k a few times, then (although he had the choice) we all pushed him to the point of getting permanently banned.

You weren't there for at least one of these cases, Ryder, but the guy had been disruptive and spammy in chat before, both "in public" and in PMs to people. I was present for one of the earlier cases he had been acting up in and we had repeatedly asked him nicely to knock it off. He'd say "sorry" and then keep spamming. People were unable to converse without putting him on ignore. People would join the chat and get a flood of spam. After going through this about three or four times he got kicked.

I imagine in this particular instance yesterday, when he was finally banned (and then went to post nasty things on the wall with an alt that he made), there was another attempt at "working things out peacefully." Obviously, it did not work. I don't think anyone pushed him. I think he was just looking to cause trouble, especially based on the things he spammed the wall with afterwards.

Anyway, is this really the place you want to be discussing this? The point this thread is trying to make is that we should not be nasty to each other, especially to the point of saying, "you're not a good Jedi" or whatever.