Sticks and Stones May Break My Bones...

...but words will leave a gaping wound long, long after those heal.

"You're not a Jedi"
"Why are you even here?"
"That is not how a knight/Jedi acts."

Directed at me, directed at others, I've seen them many times in my short three years here, today was the latest, and it's heartbreaking. It's not just from brand-new people either. I've seen it from long-standing members.

We are not here to judge the actions of others. We're here to HELP ourselves, and possibly, get to the point where we can help others while we're at it. Saying these things drives those who need the most help away. It's a stab at their very being. You're telling them that possibly the one thing they identify as, is false. That they don't belong here. That their one lifeline, the one thing they are clinging to for hope, isn't for them. How can we possibly help them when we throw that in their faces?

I am tired of trying to repair the damage those thoughtless words do.

"No one else's opinion should matter, they should grow thicker skin."
Yeah, and while they're working on that, maybe we could offer some compassion instead. If you were strong enough to power through nobody believing in you, then I'm thankful you've never felt that kind of pain. But not everyone is in the same place as you. If you've grown past that, I'm proud of you, but remember where you came from.

Remember, my Jedi path is MY path. Yours is your own. Funny thing about these things is there are as many different paths as there are Jedi. Some run parallel, some will cross, others are worlds different in both location and terrain. How can I, who's path leads through fire and flood, judge the one who's traveling from mountain top to mountain top?

We each are in our own places, with our own difficulties. Be aware of your words. Let's find a more constructive way to call someone out if they need it rather than attacking WHO they are. Perhaps comment on their specific action instead. "Hey, you're not being compassionate/open/understanding because *reasons*" or even find out where they're coming from first. "I did notice you said this, why? What are you feeling?" There's probably more to their story than you realize.

Thank you for this, Kit. This really needed to be said.

Great message, Kit. Compassion is the single greatest tool we can wield when we witness pain or weakness in someone else.

Hmmm yes, now I'm going to be spending all day contemplating the relationship between curiosity and compassion. :pinch:

If you are going to use the premise of each Jedi path being so singular, then you cannot very well tell people how they should criticize.

Your essentially saying the same thing as " A Jedi does, or doesnt etc,etc."

Yet who judges whats to harsh for another?

You can only judge for yourself, and really, only after you take offense.

Such is the merry go round of the internet.

A person may feel attacked, but the "attacker" may not have even thought a punch had been thrown.

Khaos wrote: If you are going to use the premise of each Jedi path being so singular, then you cannot very well tell people how they should criticize.

Your essentially saying the same thing as " A Jedi does, or doesnt etc,etc."

Yet who judges whats to harsh for another?

You can only judge for yourself, and really, only after you take offense.

Such is the merry go round of the internet.

A person may feel attacked, but the "attacker" may not have even thought a punch had been thrown.

As it all falls down to perspectives ultimately and always, how you are labeled in a community, is defined by the community, not by how or what you choose to be, but how they view you and your actions.

Choosing to submit to the communities views would make you self-less but also more of a slave as to not be on your own chosen path but the path the community chooses, a passive life.

To choose for yourself how you want to be is ultimately selfish in nature, but aggressive as well, and ultimately will lead to the butting of heads of others who choose a similar stance on their path.

The divide is real, the conflict just as such, only on a solitary path with no interactions with anyone would you truly be clear of it all. But who wants to live that life?

So where do we find the happy medium in-between?

We are all guilty of this, judging, ganging up on someone , telling me what someone else is , so? Its part of life in general and especially on the internet , i do care about people here and i see that some are really struggling and even if they shoot their mouth of and scream at everyone i try to consider why?
The help that is being offered and rebuttelt , the true and genuine interest that is being seen as meddling , the talking about members behind their backs in that "ow gosh have you noticed that " tone , i see it , i process it. And i hardly ever forget it although its forgiven. Its all part of this complex community and the nice aspects of it are even double there , so why this emphysis on the bad parts so much, are we reluctant to accept that we are just human and need to let of steam which for some people with attachment and social issues riles into rants? What are we , do we just discard people who hurt others? Are not we supposed to get get of our arses and be the best Jedi we are? Is not that fulfilling enough ? Just some questions that come to me when i read this post and its responses. You can guide people but you can never tell them what to be , and if they get too annoying well...ignoring is a bliss

You want me to go on ? Please tell me because i dont want to tell people how to behave anywhere , the doctrine is very clear on how we should behave and all i can do is refer to that when i see injustice and talk to someone in pm about his or hers behaviour.

Marta, the very nature of this post is to "guide" people. Yesterday someone dear to many of us got really hurt. They got hurt not really because of a troll, but because people in this community, when we come to disagree on things, tell people that they don't really belong here.

Ganging up and judging has nothing to do with this. It's people who say "my view on what a Jedi is differs from yours, so you should leave." It's hurtful, rude, and toxic. It really should have no place here.

Yesterday, someone reported a spammer in chat. Several people were distressed by the spam, so the reporter told the room the spammer was reported, to try to restore order. A kid who likes to cause chaos threw fuel on the fire, and stuff started to get out of control.

Two knights entered, and were trying to mediate the situation and keep an eye on things, when someone entered halfway through the situation, and declared that our member was not "acting like a true Jedi." Seriously? The one who joined halfway and knew nothing of the situation AND the one who just likes to cause chaos (and has admitted as much) referenced the doctrine.

Yes, "patience and understanding" as well as compassion are important to Jedi. The spammer had been shown patience--he's spammed chat over the course of several days, and had to be kicked multiple times.

But what about the understanding and compassion to the new members who were in chat who came to learn, as well? Do they deserve to have their chance to learn spoiled by their page being filled up with letters?

And, let's not pick and choose, if we're going to reference documents. What about the Jedi maxim of Justice? The person was acting in an unruly manner, and the issue had apparently been discussed with him over the course of the last week. What about Defense? Don't we have the duty to keep this place free of harmful behavior so that those who wish to study here can do so in peace?

And where is the Loyalty? Why would you come in halfway through a conversation, not have ANY facts at all, and pick a side of what you take to be an argument? If we want to talk Doctrine, Jedi are supposed to take action after consideration, not rush in pell-mell and attack their brothers and sisters.

So, after all this went down we all saw the results on the wall. So, those that had no information hurt one of our own community, and someone who is legitimately trying to learn and progress here, all for a toxic person that really had no interest in being here other than to draw attention to themselves, and cause mischief and harm to our community.

This thread has nothing to do with "ganging up," Marta. It has to do with "sticking together." It's something we can't ever seem to do. We talk about acceptance and how everybody's path is different. We talk about how the outside world views us with skepticism, apathy, and a big joke. Then, when we face a little difficulty, we turn on each other. We say hurtful things to each other.

so why this emphysis on the bad parts so much

Why the emphasis on the bad parts? Well, because we need to progress. If we don't talk about it, we can't ever improve it. I don't want to emphasize JUST the bad parts, there are a lot of good things about this place, many of which I have reaped the benefits of. But things like this, that hurt those I care about, that have helped me along this path, take those benefits and stomp on them.

are we reluctant to accept that we are just human and need to let of steam which for some people with attachment and social issues riles into rants?

No, we know we're all human. We do all make mistakes. But that doesn't mean there aren't consequences for those mistakes. The consequences for yesterday's mistakes are my wall rant, and this thread. Now we discuss it and try to come up with an outcome.

What are we , do we just discard people who hurt others?

I'm not talking about discarding anybody. I am, however, talking about someone who feels discarded. We also have to look out for the good of those who wish to learn here. Some of us were so busy defending the rights of the spammer that they forgot about the rights of the other several new members who are legitimately trying to walk the path. We have a duty to defend the weak (again, doctrine). By not tolerating toxic behavior, we fulfill that duty and make this a safe place for them to study.

Are not we supposed to get get of our arses and be the best Jedi we are? Is not that fulfilling enough ?

That's what we're trying to do here.

What Kit said should even have to be said.

Khaos, we're not even talking about "a jedi does this and not that", we're talking about humanity. If we can't even show compassion for each other, how can we hope to extend that compassion to those outside our community?

It's a no-brainer. The golden rule: love others as you would have them love you.

Gwinn wrote: Marta, the very nature of this post is to "guide" people. Yesterday someone dear to many of us got really hurt. They got hurt not really because of a troll, but because people in this community, when we come to disagree on things, tell people that they don't really belong here.

Ganging up and judging has nothing to do with this. It's people who say "my view on what a Jedi is differs from yours, so you should leave." It's hurtful, rude, and toxic. It really should have no place here.

Yesterday, someone reported a spammer in chat. Several people were distressed by the spam, so the reporter told the room the spammer was reported, to try to restore order. A kid who likes to cause chaos threw fuel on the fire, and stuff started to get out of control.

Two knights entered, and were trying to mediate the situation and keep an eye on things, when someone entered halfway through the situation, and declared that our member was not "acting like a true Jedi." Seriously? The one who joined halfway and knew nothing of the situation AND the one who just likes to cause chaos (and has admitted as much) referenced the doctrine.

Yes, "patience and understanding" as well as compassion are important to Jedi. The spammer had been shown patience--he's spammed chat over the course of several days, and had to be kicked multiple times.

But what about the understanding and compassion to the new members who were in chat who came to learn, as well? Do they deserve to have their chance to learn spoiled by their page being filled up with letters?

And, let's not pick and choose, if we're going to reference documents. What about the Jedi maxim of Justice? The person was acting in an unruly manner, and the issue had apparently been discussed with him over the course of the last week. What about Defense? Don't we have the duty to keep this place free of harmful behavior so that those who wish to study here can do so in peace?

And where is the Loyalty? Why would you come in halfway through a conversation, not have ANY facts at all, and pick a side of what you take to be an argument? If we want to talk Doctrine, Jedi are supposed to take action after consideration, not rush in pell-mell and attack their brothers and sisters.

So, after all this went down we all saw the results on the wall. So, those that had no information hurt one of our own community, and someone who is legitimately trying to learn and progress here, all for a toxic person that really had no interest in being here other than to draw attention to themselves, and cause mischief and harm to our community.

This thread has nothing to do with "ganging up," Marta. It has to do with "sticking together." It's something we can't ever seem to do. We talk about acceptance and how everybody's path is different. We talk about how the outside world views us with skepticism, apathy, and a big joke. Then, when we face a little difficulty, we turn on each other. We say hurtful things to each other.

so why this emphysis on the bad parts so much

Why the emphasis on the bad parts? Well, because we need to progress. If we don't talk about it, we can't ever improve it. I don't want to emphasize JUST the bad parts, there are a lot of good things about this place, many of which I have reaped the benefits of. But things like this, that hurt those I care about, that have helped me along this path, take those benefits and stomp on them.

are we reluctant to accept that we are just human and need to let of steam which for some people with attachment and social issues riles into rants?

No, we know we're all human. We do all make mistakes. But that doesn't mean there aren't consequences for those mistakes. The consequences for yesterday's mistakes are my wall rant, and this thread. Now we discuss it and try to come up with an outcome.

What are we , do we just discard people who hurt others?

I'm not talking about discarding anybody. I am, however, talking about someone who feels discarded. We also have to look out for the good of those who wish to learn here. Some of us were so busy defending the rights of the spammer that they forgot about the rights of the other several new members who are legitimately trying to walk the path. We have a duty to defend the weak (again, doctrine). By not tolerating toxic behavior, we fulfill that duty and make this a safe place for them to study.

Are not we supposed to get get of our arses and be the best Jedi we are? Is not that fulfilling enough ?

That's what we're trying to do here.

I was not reacting to you or an incident but more in general for other online communites as well and giving my thoughts on the topic that was presented , i agree with Kit fully