The Islamic state

E-3_4L_Teeter wrote: ISIS is a direct result of U.S. inaction in 2011-2012, where we were more than happy to depose one dictator forcibly, but stifle the potential growth of democracy in another.

I would actually argue that ISIS is a direct result of US overinvolvement in the Middle East as a whole, starting as early as our support of the creation of the Israeli state post-WW2, and continuing heavily in our various political and military actions from the 1970's onward.

ISIS members generally want to die in battle (kind of like Klingons, actually).

So give them what they want.

(by the way, titling this thread "Islamic State" and then only talking about ISIS, it's a bit confusing as to who you're referring to)

Streen wrote: ISIS members generally want to die in battle (kind of like Klingons, actually).

So give them what they want.

(by the way, titling this thread "Islamic State" and then only talking about ISIS, it's a bit confusing as to who you're referring to)

Excuze moi , dont insult the Klingons please , ISIS knows no honour !

Streen wrote: (by the way, titling this thread "Islamic State" and then only talking about ISIS, it's a bit confusing as to who you're referring to)

"ISIS" stands for "Islamic State of Iraq and Syria", or "Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham."

They are also referred to as "ISIL", the "Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant."

Given the context of the last two years of discussion about ISIS/ISIL/Daesh worldwide, and the fact that the group itself refers to itself with the term "Islamic State", I don't find the title of this thread misleading in the slightest.

steamboat28 wrote:

E-3_4L_Teeter wrote: ISIS is a direct result of U.S. inaction in 2011-2012, where we were more than happy to depose one dictator forcibly, but stifle the potential growth of democracy in another.

I would actually argue that ISIS is a direct result of US overinvolvement in the Middle East as a whole, starting as early as our support of the creation of the Israeli state post-WW2, and continuing heavily in our various political and military actions from the 1970's onward.

It's an interesting argument I've heard before, but never seen it fleshed out. The IS is not an anti-Western movement though, it's anti-everything which is not it. That is not uncommon in the region and through history, with the greatest number of victims from islamic terrorism being other muslims, apparently. The best thing I could find to fit your idea is Salafi Jihadism, but even that is said to have started against the Soviet's rather then the Americans;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafi_jihadism

steamboat28 wrote: Given the context of the last two years of discussion about ISIS/ISIL/Daesh worldwide, and the fact that the group itself refers to itself with the term "Islamic State", I don't find the title of this thread misleading in the slightest.

Right. My mistake. Misinterpreted the subject line.

Excuze moi , dont insult the Klingons please , ISIS knows no honour !

True. Meant no disrespect

The IS is not an anti-Western movement though, it's anti-everything which is not it

Good point. ISIS wants to destroy anything that doesn't involve Islam. Which can be seen in a literal sense as they demolish ancient structures made by other societies. Makes me sick. Though obviously doesn't compare to the way they treat non-Muslims. Beheading. Burning. Crucifixion.

They have to go down.

They need their own Martin Luther King, Jr., Islam style, and a lot of people to overcome their fear of rising to the occasion to tell the tyrants (terrorists) they won't stand for their shenanigans.

A lot easier said than done. Fear is the driving force of terrorist groups flourishing. Many of the people involved in the terrorist cells are just looking for people that will take care of them and their own. They believe it is self-sacrificing, not necessarily to Allah, but more to the point- for those they leave behind. It gives them purpose.

You have to tear that from them. And that takes a LOT of undoing their mindsets to pull off.

Yabuturtle wrote: Am I the only one finds it strange that ISIS isn't defeated yet? These guys should have been defeated eons ago and entire countries are struggling against this group? Something doesn't seem to add up here.

I recommend you pick up a copy of "The Spider and the Starfish" by Ori Brafman and Rod Beckstrom. The reason we've not defeated ISIL/ISIS/IS is because they aren't a spider organization. They are somewhere between the Spider and the Starfish, moving more towards Starfish now than ever. That said, they are losing territory, and Al Qaeda seems to be making a comeback ( http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/13/middleeast/afghanistan-al-qaeda/index.html )

Am I the only one finds it strange that ISIS isn't defeated yet? These guys should have been defeated eons ago and entire countries are struggling against this group? Something doesn't seem to add up here.

What isnt adding up for you exactly?

Yabuturtle wrote: Am I the only one finds it strange that ISIS isn't defeated yet? These guys should have been defeated eons ago and entire countries are struggling against this group? Something doesn't seem to add up here.

Yeah I hear ya. Considering how powerful western military is, ISIS should have been destroyed a long time ago.