Problem with lust.

My youngest brother (age 22) is one of the few non-Christians in my family, and he is open to discussing ideology with an open mind. We were talking about Christianity and lust (in the sexual context), and he told me that it's something he's had problems with. He asked me what Jediism says about the issue.

I've just finished lesson one in the initiate program. I don't think it's been addressed in my studies yet. I had to tell him that we don't have our own version of the Bible to spell everything out for us, so I would have to think about it. Personally it isn't something I struggle with since I don't really have sex hormones or anything. So I'm stuck. I don't know how to meditate on this issue.

How would you answer him, and what are your thoughts on the issue? I feel If I can get some opinions and understanding on the issue, I can get past the wall I'm running into with my meditation.

http://www.jamesallen.wwwhubs.com/think.htm

Here is one of many Ideas around here lol

Lust is a kind of Passion. And Passion is a hot topic among Jedi

Like in all things Moderation is key.

Passion and Lust is not, inherently a bad or terrible thing. It can be a very good thing to have and nurture. But, if it starts to control your better moral judgment then it is time to evaluate why you have turned these emotions into dictators of yourself.

So. If lust causes you to cheat, lie, disrupt, abuse, and harm others then it is most certianly NOT The way of Jedi.

But if it motivates you to be a better person and to surround yourself around posative influances with good moral judgments.

I personally don't see the problem

This, of course....Is just my thoughts.

As long as its taken in moderation and out of the public eye, its a healthy and natural human hormonal response.

Problems start arising when people pervert its intended function however and sink into addiction and hedonism.

Not that I am trying to be uptight on the issue, its just that in the majority of cases I have personally seen, this is the end result.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

In 50 words or less.... :blink: not going to happen :lol:

I guess I consider lust to be a self sacrificial emotion, which is how I define a 'passion'. This one in particular being based on the reproductive instinct of sexual gratification, or just the pleasure from its action.

The self sacrifice might not be flesh, but it could be things like spirit, money, morals, trust, or even just ones duty of care & responsibility to self and others.

So for my Jedi path, emotions lay on a scale... at one end are the sublte feelings which do not really impact our bodily systems beyond awareness of them, then there are emotions which are stronger feelings and include bodily systems reacting such as crying, increased heart rate, different hormones etc (physical manifestations of feelings), and finally over the other end is the passions; being a type of emotion is when the emotions shunting off control to the subconscious incorporates decision making itself - in simple terms when your body starts thinking for your brain. The later to me, is suited to concepts like 'dark' in Jedi fiction... because it breaks the chains of logic/rationality to ones manifest causality, while still encumbering the responsibility for it. That creates a new pattern of behaviour based on protecting oneself from the impact of being unchained from responsible (insightful) action.. which IMO is not particularly smart or 'Jedi'.

But I'm not saying lust is 'wrong', just I like to see things for how they are and not pretend its not what it is, and lust is not love. Given my above intro, I'm not sure if they can co-exist at the same time, but they certainly seem to be related such that they can switch from one to the other, and can do so at such a high rate that they might appear (and practically be) co-existent. So the distinction I'm making is not to be academic, but to highlite the natures of when they tend towards being out of control.

I do though have a sense of caution when exercising passions, or simulating the experience of exercising passions. There might be good skills to learn because the subconscious is probably a bigger part of us then our consciousness!! But things like pornography are too short and underdeveloped to represent the sexual interaction most representative of 'love', so instead stuff like porn IMO demonstrates just lust. Which explains why it has a lot of 'rough' oppressive violent iterations, and why sex crime is as prevalent as it is. Quite simply lust is a type of selfish action which fuels it's own gratification, but again, I don't consider it wrong on its own.... awareness is a better approach then abstinence IMO, but sometimes abstinence might be a required tool to allow one to regain the capacity to have that appropriate awareness and self control.

So IMO lust is just sexual self gratification. If you can find someone you lust, who lusts for you, then it's just a balanced type of sex insofar as to the extents of each other lust. But I don't think its love, or love making, as that IMO is about the other person giving pleasure to, and a measure of each getting pleasure given, not taken. In that regard love can be more about losing control then lust, but in love its about connection and building trust, not selfish focus on getting off. All IMO :whistle:

Edit: I forgot to say, the problem with exercising passions (or simulating exercising them) is that it can empower the subconscious in decision making beyond what we'd consciously prefer, and its this which manifests out of control behaviour, habits and even some types of addictions. We should choose to be responsible with our bodies and minds, and being aware of what we are doing with them is an opportunity to build ourselves into a better person, or at least help reduce the chance of turning ourselves into a worse one.

AveryR1988 wrote: My youngest brother (age 22) is one of the few non-Christians in my family, and he is open to discussing ideology with an open mind. We were talking about Christianity and lust (in the sexual context), and he told me that it's something he's had problems with. He asked me what Jediism says about the issue.

How would you answer him, and what are your thoughts on the issue? I feel If I can get some opinions and understanding on the issue, I can get past the wall I'm running into with my meditation.

i speak for myself, not for "jediism" and i would first ASK him exactly what he means by "problems"?

what exactly is happening that he considers a problem?

thats where id start and this is why:

as far as i can tell, "religious people" created a lot of the so called "problems" associated with sex and lust by taking perfectly normal and healthy human drives and urges and desires, and calling them sinful and evil and telling us that there is something wrong with us because we feel this way

i have a high regard for certain areas of religious thought, generally, but the idea of humans being inherently EVIL is the stupidest and most destructive idea in any religious movement that ive ever seen and i absolutely dispute it at every turn

if you think about it for even a second, this idea that we're all evil, it basically justifies the extermination of the entire species

is that a good idea?

so it might very well be that his real problem is all the dumb things he's been exposed to about how its "wrong" to want sex or to be horny

it might even be that after years of trying to reconcile his natural human urges with this false standard of B.S. "purity" or "righteousness" that he has even developed some kind of psychological obsession or compulsion or phobia or whatever

i dont know him, so i cant tell him specifically what he should be pursuing, but i can say that in general it is really super important to pursue goals in life, to be dedicated to achieving something which is really difficult, and to do ones best to involve oneself in area/s where one can make a positive difference in society in some way

the "advice" that i always have for everyone, is to commit yourself to a path that is challenging and personally meaningful to you, whatever that might mean

dedicate yourself to something

it doesnt seem like it has anything to do with the question at all, but its a foundational step to personal growth imo and growing as a person is a process which answers a lot of questions in and of itself

then i would say that its normal to be turned on and to be attracted to people: he's 22 yrs old, its perfectly normal and natural to pursue sex and i would tell him to go for it!

but to be smart: there are issues that come (lol) with sex which you need to be aware of, particularly im talking about disease and pregnancy but thats not the end of it, its just that the topic is too broad for this post

the important things to remember are to think things through, and to have respect for others as equals and as individuals with feelings which matter as much as your own

then i would tell him that porn is mostly B.S. - it really gives a distorted image of sexuality altogether

masculinity and femininity and the way that people have sex are very often exaggerated in a lot of pornography and while it might seem like a good place to get "pointers", it is a medium with a lot of potential for giving ideas that are just plain wrong and often counterproductive to your own well-being and "relationship maturity"

also, imo it kind of "relieves a pressure" which might otherwise help drive him to meet real women (or men) and have real relationships, which are far more risky but also far more rewarding

that being said, i dont think theres anything inherently wrong with porn per se, and also i know that its a pretty strong desire for a lot of people

so i would add that if he falls into either of the above categories, he should check out the "real couples" and the "women friendly" kinds - theres basically a "movement" i guess you could call it, with the aim of providing "adult entertainment" that is representative of real life and real people

last, i would encourage him to talk to men who have more lif experience than he does, especially who have the kind of lives that he himself genuinely respects and admires, if he can find any

Lust can/will be there, just don't let it control you.

Lust is a natural function no less essential to life than the need to feed. Beware of that sweet tooth though.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Alright so it sounds like everyone is in agreement that lust it's self isn't wrong. What is wrong is an unhealthy relationship with it, or a fixation on it. Again this type of lust is a foreign thing to me since I don't produce sex hormones. Would it be similar to gluttony? Like the food isn't a problem, but the relationship with the food can be. Or is that off base? It is hard to wrap my head around the concept.

I've talked to him a little tonight when he got off work. Specifically his problem is the fact that he was raised to think abstinence is the only way until you are married. He's still abstinent but is having difficulty staying abstinent. So it sounds to me like the issue is excessive self denial. I'm thinking his unhealthy relationship with food is kind of a coping mechanism. Basically a denial of one thing, leading to an excess of another.

AveryR1988 wrote: Would it be similar to gluttony? Like the food isn't a problem, but the relationship with the food can be. Or is that off base? It is hard to wrap my head around the concept.

Probably, but I've never been gluttonous or out of control with over eating. The main difference might be that we do not view people as food, but people can be objectified sexually. So the long term abuse of 'lust' might change how we perceive and relate with other people to some extent in addition to the other factors one might experience with addiction.

Beyond craving for intimate social contact for some reason, if I were to wrongly assume he was not abstinate, and its just the getting off sex bit, then I dunno about any science to verify it but male sex drive can be quite.... errr domineering to ones experience of self. If testosterone is a factor in driving libido (makes people more frisky), then consider men might have about 10 times the amount as women! Not double, not triple, but ten times
:S

For guys it's often a fast and easy way to switch on pleasure centres in the brain, and thus mediate their experience of reality to counter stress or just plain have a good time. So basically like a illegal drug to get high. It's natural, and its use is not abuse per se, but if it becomes abuse then it can have real impacts.

Then if reinforced through repeated use (and the rates can be very high, and for long durations), it can really get entrenched into habitual use to the point where its consistent supply (or application in coping with stress) can really interferes with living normal life without it - which is a definition of addiction AFAIK.

AveryR1988 wrote: He's still abstinent but is having difficulty staying abstinent. So it sounds to me like the issue is excessive self denial. I'm thinking his unhealthy relationship with food is kind of a coping mechanism. Basically a denial of one thing, leading to an excess of another.

You might be right that he is distracting himself with other indulgences, but sex drive is not absent during abstinence AFAIK. The problem is, for many guys just thinking about sex generates sensations of pleasure. IMO it gets stronger with abstinence, unless in circumstances where there is no sexualized symbols or signs. It seems hard wired, part of the psycho-sexual machinery to drive reproductive instinct as wide and far as possible.
:pinch:

Don't ask me why I have so much to say on this :silly: I have a lot to say on lots of things luckily :side: