In Praise of Selectivity: Syncretic Jediism

Thank you all very much for the dialogue I have just read. I was familiar with the concept of syncretism but didn't know the word. I love learning these things.

Let's play.

Someone suggest a myth.

We will investigate which of the possible definitions of myth listed above apply to that myth.

If it can be identified as being consistent with one or more of the definitions of myth, we then identify the symbols in the myth then suggest possible interpretations of their meaning.

One of the goals of our discussion will be to uncover/discover the primary symbol.

Who wants to start?

Alan wrote: Let's play.

Someone suggest a myth.

We will investigate which of the possible definitions of myth listed above apply to that myth.

If it can be identified as being consistent with one or more of the definitions of myth, we then identify the symbols in the myth then suggest possible interpretations of their meaning.

One of the goals of our discussion will be to uncover/discover the primary symbol.

Who wants to start?

I will begin.

What about the tale of Philemon and Baukis (Baucis)?

There is a version of it here http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/HermesFavour.html#Philemon for you to read if you are unfamiliar with the story.

Lets give it a try, I have the first two paragraphs done, I hope I did something correctly :blush:

~ Aqua

Primary symbol:

• The power of heaven;
• Zeus and Hermes;
• Philemon;
• warm ash;
• a vlame;
• her spouse;
• the steam-fed garden;
• guests.

Secondary symbol:

• the gods;
• proof;
• A thousand homes;
• all, but except one, hostile;
• one friendly cottage;
• to obey and command;
• the low door;
• the old man;
• busy haste;
• old breath;
• split billets and dry twigs;
• a little copper pan;
• forked stick;
• black beam;
• beachwood bowl;
• warm water;
• smoke-cured pork;
• hour and time.

Connor L. wrote:

SeventhSL wrote: The opposite of 1 is -1.

1 + -1 = 0

If you have a belief and add the opposite of that belief what do you have?

I think, because -1 isn't an actual value, we should treat this like mathematics actually treats it.

|1| + |-1| = 2.

Absolute value comes into play when opposites are found in the real world.

I'll have to ring the bank and tell them that they need only consider the distance of my mortgage and not the direction given I live in the real world.

Seriously though thanks for the answer. I used mathematics because it is the fundamental and universal language human kind uses to understand the universe. It represents the concepts of the real world incredible well.

So I disagree. -1 is an actual value. 1 + -1 is the same as 1 - 1. Both of which are actual values. A negative number is a real number that is less than zero. Negative numbers represent opposites. So if positive represents movement to the right then negative represents movement to the left.

Absolute value describes the distance of a number on the number line from 0 without considering which direction from zero the number lies.

So lets consider a real world example. A tennis player hits a tennis ball and imparts a force of 3 on it in a given direction. As the ball travels through the air wind resistance applies a force on the ball of 1 for every 5 metres the ball travels. The force of wind resistance acts in the opposite direction to the force the tennis player imparted so they are opposite forces.

If we use negative numbers to represent opposites in the real world, then at 5 meters the force on the ball would be 3 + -1 = 2, at 10 meters it would be 2 + -1 = 1 and at 15 meters it would be 1 + -1 = 0. At 15 meters there is 0 force pushing the ball forward so it wouldn't travel any further and so not be subject to any more wind resistance. So Mathematics would predict that the ball would gradually lose force until is came to a stop at 15m.

If we used absolute values then at the same distances we would have the following |3| + |-1| = 4, then |4| + |-1| = 5 and finally |5| + |-1| = 6. So Mathematics would predict that the ball would have more and more force applied to it and never stop.

Which prediction mirrors the real world? I experiment in the real would by hitting a tennis ball and observe it coming to a stop after it travels a certain distance. Now we know using negatives as opposite is correct because DIRECTION matters when predicting behaviour in the real world. Using absolutes actually gave us the total force applied to the ball by both the tennis player and the wind.

Lets now apply the correct method to beliefs.

A person believes he is hungry = Belief 1 = 1
A person believes he is not hungry = Belief 2 = -1 (it is the opposite of the first belief)

Thus:
If we want to know the total amount of Belief we can use absolutes |1| + |-1| = 2 and say there are a total of two beliefs.
If we want to know the result of have those two beliefs then Belief 1 + Belief 2 = 1 + -1 = 1 - 1 = 0 = No belief in any direction.

So will the person eat? Well not because of a belief about being hungry. If the person eats it will be because of some other factor that may drive them one way or the other. Maybe just choice.

So using Mathematics I'd predict that a Syncretic person would have lots and lots of beliefs (addition using absolute values) but have no belief in any direction (addition using negatives). Effectively they believe what ever they want to believe but those beliefs don't necessarily mirror the real world.

Dunno what I'm doing but here goes.... to use the Force as the primary (which otherwise might have instead been what I'm using for secondary)

Primary: Force

Secondary: evolution (a defined type of growth);
+ Positive being lifting up of base element (water) through trees.
- Negative being drowned and mixed into marsh).

Tertiary:
< compassion - (focus [moment] {base} ),
^ duty - (body (of knowledge) [action] {path} ),
> longevity - (wisdom [result] {fruit} )

Regarding Philemon and Baucus.

Which definition of myth? I think, Myths are the narrative embodiment of an idea.
What idea: it is narrative is about disguised gods visiting humans, and it is a morality tale about the ethical human response to our inability to recognize the divine.

What is the primary symbol?
Primary symbols describes the way of the world, and so in this story, what is the nature of reality? It is true that we don't recognize the gods when they visit. This kind of story can be found in other myths. For example, in Genesis chapter 18, Yhwh appears to Abraham disguised in human form - as three men; and then again disguised as two men when Yhwh visits Lot in Sodom.

The secondary symbol is that the visit is a test of the hospitality of those who are visited. Providing for guests is a foundational moral requirement and the format of the lesson regarding our relationship to guests is that we do not know when a stranger showing up at our door is divine or not. So, the moral requirement is, because we can't tell the human from the divine (primary symbol), treat every stranger as a disguised divinity. The secondary symbol in the narrative is the meal provided to the gods. Another form of the secondary symbol here is that this service to guests is a religious ceremony. It is a rite we perform that shows our belief (primary symbol) that we humans have no natural capacity to recognize the divine.

The divine is, like the Force, invisible. This invisibility makes it both absent and present. Absence/invisibility is a primary symbol describing the nature of reality - the structure of the cosmos is present though absent to our senses because of its invisibility. The Force is, when considered in its primary symbolism, thought of as a principle of connection between the visible and invisible.

The Force is a primary symbol of the inter-relationship of everything real, both visible and invisible, and so also, the Force is a primary symbol that describes the nature of the principle of order in the cosmos. Order is itself a primary symbol. Order is not a thing but is rather a way of describing reality. The pre-Socratic philosopher, Heraclitus, uses the ancient Greek word, logos, to name the order that is oppositional. The structure of reality is, at its most essential, one of reciprocity and inter-relationship of opposites. In the narrative myth that is employed here in our Temple, the reciprocal opposites are sometimes described in the secondary symbolism of light and dark.

Understanding myth is one of the most important lessons that any Jedi should learn. One of the most important genres of myth are those concerning origins. Myths are the narratives about beginnings. The events in primordial time, that is, events that occurred at the beginning are the content of many myths. They tell the story of how the world got to be the way it is today.

Everyone believes the world is a particular kind of reality. Our beliefs about reality are not the same for world has many myths describing how it got to be this way. Each religion has its own corpus of myths and vocabulary of symbols and it is these narratives and symbols that distinguish religions from one another. It is at the level of myth and symbol that syncretism finds its greatest challenges integrating the disparate elements.

To review:

Myth is the narrative account containing primary and secondary symbols.

Myth is the narrative in which the primary and secondary symbols are expressed.

Primary symbols tell of the nature of reality and our experience of reality. What is experienced as a primary symbol requires the mediation of the language. The mythic language of primary symbols gives voice to (or provides the vocabulary of) our experience of reality. The secondary symbol is the medium for the primary symbol; it is the particular form of the primary symbol.

Myth of Origin

Death is a reality that all humans experience (primary symbol).

The Adam myth tells the story of the origin of death (narrative myth).

Humans no longer live in the Garden of Eden (secondary symbol).

For example: in Genesis we find the narrative of what it was like at the beginning. The original humans lived in a garden paradise with the Creator. All was perfection. But this is not our experience of reality. So how did reality become this way. The myth narrates the loss of perfection. But it was not merely a loss but an exile for the original humans were kicked out of the garden paradise. The primary symbol that describes our experience of realty is exile from sacred perfection.

There are other religions which do not express the nature of reality as exile from paradise or from the presence of the divine. Animist and polytheist religions are not separated from the divine, Shinto and Hinduism respectively. Their primary symbols are different; there is no exile, but rather, some of their origin their myths narrate ideas regarding purity.

Suggested activity: Compose a Jedi myth of the origins of the Force. Consider the Force as not having a beginning, but rather, it is a beginning.

Alan wrote: Suggested activity: Compose a Jedi myth of the origins of the Force. Consider the Force as not having a beginning, but rather, it is a beginning.

There was a sudden and drastic change at the beginning of all things. Where there was once only the Force in Chaos suddenly all manner of things streamed forth in great variety. Time also began ticking away the moments of the universe. The matter emanating from that primordial Force was chaotic and disorganized. Yet, there was a pattern. The gases and particles danced to an unseen rhythm. With the passage of time the flow of the Force moved this cosmic emission to form galaxies.

Over billions of years the universe became lit with the stars. Planets formed around these stars from the matter which had flowed out from the Force. Time continued to flow with the Force. From out the relative chaos of the early universe there came a small planet which cooled and settled into an orbit around a star. That planet had no name. The Force, however, flowed over that planet in special abundance and, after a violent series of asteroid impacts and extreme time, caused a spark of life. Still without a name, the planet spun around it's sun and continued to generate life.

There may be other planets to which the Force gifted life, but this is the one we know of and we have called it Earth.