- Posts: 4394
I think people are falling for it
Omhu Cuspor wrote: I'm more or less aligned with those here who are skeptical of most conspiracy theories. For example, claims that the Freemasons are a sanctuary of evil with the intent to take over the world have existed for much of America's history - yet no such scheme has been implemented, and there's no credible evidence that it's happening now. Similarly, an imminent takeover by the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, and the Bilderbergers has been alleged since at least the 1960's, but we do not see them clearly at work in the most impactful events affecting our lives, even today.
Well the Rothschilds are easy to see why they come up in all the conspiracy stuff.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/50997.stm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/8302288/Rothschild-history-of-a-London-banking-dynasty.html
Basically they might be only ones able to finance and have the influence to coordinate such massive crazy conspiracy but who knows.
The Rockefellers definitely influenced American education in a very negative way, in my opinion - here's a lengthy history.
http://www.wakingtimes.com/2014/01/28/untold-history-modern-u-s-education-founding-fathers/
The Bilderberg group just sceams conspiracy no matter how you look at it...
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Bilderberg
There's also just so many quotes from the horses mouth from all the big geopolitical players that when you just look at what they say, what their groups write about, the ties between all the corporations owned by them, the agenda runs contrary to many people's values and ideas since it appears to be rampant with greed and lust for power. I think either way the earth is going to have a world government, I don't think these people should be the ones secretly creating it without the public's input which is exactly what they are doing. But I understand their reasoning because you just look at what goes on in the world most people are too rooted in their traditions and cultures in such a way that they war with each other over them regardless of outside influence. These guys use really dirty tricks too as Yabu mentioned media manipulation, subliminal messages, advanced technology, and also they create and foment crisis, conduct false flags operations, it's all real. It may not be real to the extent of one massive group controlling everything, and as far as some conspiracy guys take it - but the American hegemony wants their world order, Europe wants theirs, Russia wants theirs, China wants theirs, now the Islamic State wants theirs, but also the corporate and business conglomerates want theirs too it's very simple.
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And that Bush himself quoted, in a video "Let us not tolerate any outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September 11th. Again, no one finds this strange? No one bats an eye to this of him wanting to violate free speech and silence those that question it, all the more while enacting unconstitutional bills like the Patriot Act, and later on bills like the NDAA though.
Bilderbergs are well known for being secretive which again should make you raise an eyebrow. There's a difference between being private and being secretive and groups like that are well known for trying to keep secrets of that Bush and John Kerry were members of a Secret Society called the Skull and Bones society which is another secret group. Again no one bats an eye to this? These people admit it on tv radio, newspapers ect but for some reason some people either ignore it or think it's fake for some reason
I can use an example and I know it's from Star Wars but it makes sense if you think about it. Remember Palpatine who was on the side of the Republic yet he secretly created the Seperatist crisis led by Dooku and both of them were in on it. He played both sides and manipulated the entire thing to get more power and as the crisis intensified he assumed more political power for himself on the side of the Republic which he eventually turned into an empire. Yes I know people will say "It's just a movie, but writers and directors make those things because they base the ideas on things that have happened in the past. The idea of false flags is not impossible and many tyrants have used that trick to assume more power.
If you want evidence, there's plenty of evidence that such things are happening but if one wants proof that's different. There's a difference between evidence and proof. I'm thinking there are just people who will refuse that any of this is happening because they don't want to believe such a thing is happening, that the idea that some governments in the world that are corrupt and that are basically using and betraying the people is too much for some people and too painful that they'd rather not think about the idea that they were being used and betrayed the entire time. Not everything's as it seems. Just because when something is happening and because it seems like it it's happening this way doesn't mean that it actually is. Like if on paper2 countries fight each other and on paper they are enemies, but secretly they are allies that are working against the people to assume more power and control for themselves. I just want people to keep an open mind and be aware.
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CryojenX wrote: It's really inevitable that there will be those who want to control others I suppose. The real takaway question from this for me though is: is there anything that we as individuals (or even as groups) can do about it? Even if there were, one major power player would simply be followed by another with similar aims. Unfortunately this has been the way of things since the dawn of civilization and won't change any time soon.
It is true that both good and evil will always exist. The thing is now, the side of evil is trying to gain a foothold where evil will be the main dominant power. Even in a golden age of good, evil will still exist, just in smaller quantities. However as far doing something, there's plenty one can do. We know one person can make a difference and it has been shown that in times of tyranny people would stand up against it. Many idea have been tried, like civil disobedience. Such as if a few tyrannical draconian laws were passed, the best way to go against it is not follow it. Obviously a tyrannical government can't hurt or imprison everyone. What they do is make an example out of a few to scare the others into submission. But they try to take over through sneaky motives. They realize that if they use force immediately, resistance will appear. That's why they would want to brainwash others into thinking they are free when they really aren't. That's the perfect slave, when a slave honestly believes they are free.
Standing up for yourself and displaying valor will ensure victory. Others will see and emulate such actions and goodness will be multiplied
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Yabuturtle wrote: Standing up for yourself and displaying valor will ensure victory. Others will see and emulate such actions and goodness will be multiplied
I don't disagree.
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- OB1Shinobi
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"Over the last several weeks, I worked with NBC News to publish a series of articles about “dirty trick” tactics used by GCHQ’s previously secret unit, JTRIG (Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group). These were based on four classified GCHQ documents presented to the NSA and the other three partners in the English-speaking “Five Eyes” alliance. Today, we at the Intercept are publishing another new JTRIG document, in full, entitled “The Art of Deception: Training for Online Covert Operations.
By publishing these stories one by one, our NBC reporting highlighted some of the key, discrete revelations: the monitoring of YouTube and Blogger, the targeting of Anonymous with the very same DDoS attacks they accuse “hacktivists” of using, the use of “honey traps” (luring people into compromising situations using sex) and destructive viruses. But, here, I want to focus and elaborate on the overarching point revealed by all of these documents: namely, that these agencies are attempting to control, infiltrate, manipulate, and warp online discourse, and in doing so, are compromising the integrity of the internet itself.”
https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oPluex8tds
and heres a few more
The Mafia: This secret crime society was virtually unknown until the 1960s, when member Joe Valachi first revealed the society’s secrets to law enforcement officials. What was known was that organized crime existed, but not that the extent of their control included working with the CIA, politicians and the biggest businesses in the world.
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Operation Northwoods: In the early 1960s, American military leaders drafted plans to create public support for a war against Cuba, to oust Fidel Castro from power. The plans included committing acts of terrorism in U.S. cities, killing innocent people and U.S. soldiers, blowing up a U.S. ship, assassinating Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees, and hijacking planes. The plans were all approved by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but were reportedly rejected by the civilian leadership, then kept secret for nearly 40 years.
Author James Bamford, “A Pretext For War”, discusses the declassified “Operation Northwoods” documents revealing that in 1962 the CIA was planning to stage phony terrorist attacks on the US and blame it on Cuba to start a war:
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Manhattan Project: The Manhattan Project was the codename for a project conducted during World War II to develop the first atomic bomb. The project was led by the United States, and included participation from the United Kingdom and Canada. Formally designated as the Manhattan Engineer District (MED), it refers specifically to the period of the project from 1942–1946 under the control of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, under the administration of General Leslie R. Groves. The scientific research was directed by American physicist J. Robert Oppenheimer. The project’s roots lay in scientists’ fears since the 1930s that Nazi Germany was also investigating nuclear weapons of its own. Born out of a small research program in 1939, the Manhattan Project eventually employed more than 130,000 people and cost nearly US$2 billion ($22 billion in current value). It resulted in the creation of multiple production and research sites that operated in secret. With the total involved, this makes it one of the largest conspiracies in history. Entire towns were built for short periods of time, employing people, all under secrecy and top national secrecy at that. The government never admitted to it, the media never reported on it, and people had no idea for over 25 years. Project research took place at over thirty sites across the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom. The three primary research and production sites of the project were the plutonium-production facility at what is now the Hanford Site, the uranium-enrichment facilities at Oak Ridge, Tennessee, and the weapons research and design laboratory now known as Los Alamos National Laboratory. The MED maintained control over U.S. weapons production until the formation of the Atomic Energy Commission in January 1947.
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Counter Intelligence Programs Against Activists in the 60s: COINTELPRO (an acronym for Counter Intelligence Program) was a series of covert, and often illegal, projects conducted by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) aimed at investigating and disrupting dissident political organizations within the United States. The FBI used covert operations from its inception, however formal COINTELPRO operations took place between 1956 and 1971. The FBI’s stated motivation at the time was “protecting national security, preventing violence, and maintaining the existing social and political order.” According to FBI records, 85% of COINTELPRO resources were expended on infiltrating, disrupting, marginalizing, and/or subverting groups suspected of being subversive, such as communist and socialist organizations; the women’s rights movement; militant black nationalist groups, and the non-violent civil rights movement, including individuals such as Martin Luther King, Jr. and others associated with the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, the Congress of Racial Equality, the American Indian Movement, and other civil rights groups; a broad range of organizations labeled “New Left”, including Students for a Democratic Society, the National Lawyers Guild, the Weathermen, almost all groups protesting the Vietnam War, and even individual student demonstrators with no group affiliation; and nationalist groups such as those “seeking independence for Puerto Rico.” The other 15% of COINTELPRO resources were expended to marginalize and subvert “white hate groups,” including the Ku Klux Klan and National States’ Rights Party. The directives governing COINTELPRO were issued by FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, who ordered FBI agents to “expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize” the activities of these movements and their leaders.
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CIA Drug Running in LA: Pulitzer Prize Award winning journalist Gary Webb exposed this alongside LAPD Narcotics Officer turned whislteblower and author Michael Ruppert, CIA Contract Pilot Terry Reed, and many others. In August 1996 the San Jose Mercury News published Webb’s “Dark Alliance”, a 20,000 word, three-part investigative series which alleged that Nicaraguan drug traffickers had sold and distributed crack cocaine in Los Angeles during the 1980s, and that drug profits were used to fund the CIA-supported Nicaraguan Contras. Webb never asserted that the CIA directly aided drug dealers to raise money for the Contras, but he did document that the CIA was aware of the cocaine transactions and the large shipments of cocaine into the U.S. by the Contra personnel. “Dark Alliance” received national attention. At the height of the interest, the web version of it on San Jose Mercury News website received 1.3 million hits a day. According to the Columbia Journalism Review, the series became “the most talked-about piece of journalism in 1996 and arguably the most famous—some would say infamous—set of articles of the decade.”
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The CIA Assassinates A Lot Of People (Church Committee): The Church Committee is the common term referring to the United States Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities, a U.S. Senate committee chaired by Senator Frank Church in 1975. A precursor to the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, the committee investigated intelligence gathering for illegality by the CIA and FBI after certain activities had been revealed by the Watergate affair. The Committee uncovered, among many other things, that the CIA had violated its charter to perform only gathering of intelligence. For example, the assassinations of Allende in Chile and Mossadegh in Iran. Assassinations against Central and South American leaders and revolutionaries, as well as Africa, Middle East and East Asia. The list was tremendous. They even declassified a “Heart Attack Gun” the Agency had made for the use of killing someone without it being detected. Cancer, car accidents, skiing accidents, suicide, boating accidents, heart attacks, and just plain being shot were common assassination methods. The hearings, although recorded in full in congressional record, the mainstream media and official policies, is still largely not taught in American schools on recent history. The American public still has no idea this was ever actually confirmed or even took place. It is common for people to still refer to any of these assassinations as a joke or made up conspiracy.
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Kennedy Assassination
The Committee investigated until 1978, and in 1979 issued its final report, concluding that President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated by a conspiracy involving the mob, and potentially the CIA.
To this day, many conspiracy deniers are unaware that the Congressional investigation into JFK’s assassination concluded beyond any shadow of a doubt that it was a conspiracy. What made them come to this conclusion? Aside from reading the report, many witnesses (some of whom were CIA agents and station chiefs in Dallas that morning) were killed the night before testifying. For example, George de Mohrenschildt was a petroleum geologist who befriended Lee Harvey Oswald during the months preceding the assassination of U.S. President John F. Kennedy. He also worked for the CIA. He also blew his brains out the night before he was to testify to the committee. The committee also uncovered, among many things, that Oswald left the marines where he learned how to speak fluent Russian (at the height of the cold war). He was given money by the State Department to travel to Russia where he stopped off in Japan at a top secret US Military facility. The Warren Commission even mentioned this part. What most people do not know is that he probably was working in the Cold War infiltrating the Russians as either a “dangle,” “double agent,” or “defector” of some kind. What is interesting is that upon his return he got more money from the State Department to buy a house and work with an ex FBI Chief and CIA officials in training anti-Castro Cubans for an invasion. In Louisiana, where he was working, the CIA was involved in Operation Mongoose, Where Oswald worked under CIA Agent David Ferrie, who killed himself before testifying in a trial on the Assassination as well. Operation Mongoose worked closely with Southern Mafia figures largely because the casinos in Cuba, which were shut down after Fidel obtained control over the country, were epicenters for control on the island. The CIA even hired the mafia to assassinate Fidel on many occasions, 3 attempts which failed are common knowledge. What is funny is that figures who worked very close with Oswald either ended up dead (over 100 of them connected to the assassination died within a few years of unusual circumstances) or they ended up in other conspiracies.
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CIA Drug Smuggling in Arkansas: August 23, 1987, in a rural community just south of Little Rock, police officers murdered two teenage boys because they witnessed a police-protected drug drop. The drop was part of a drug smuggling operation based at a small airport in Mena, Arkansas. The Mena operation was set up in the early 1980’s by the notorious drug smuggler, Barry Seal. Facing prison after a drug conviction in Florida, Seal flew to Washington, D.C., where he put together a deal that allowed him to avoid prison by becoming an informant for the government. As a government informant against drug smugglers, Seal testified he worked for the CIA and the DEA. In one federal court case, he testified that his income from March 1984 to August 1985, was between $700,000 and $800,000. This period was AFTER making his deal with the government. Seal testified that nearly $600,000 of this came from smuggling drugs while working for — and with the permission of the DEA. In addition to his duties as an informant, Seal was used by CIA operatives to help finance the Nicaraguan Contras. The CIA connection to the Mena operation was undeniable when a cargo plane given to Seal by the CIA was shot down over Nicaragua with a load of weapons. In spite of the evidence, every investigator who has tried to expose the crimes of Mena has been professionally destroyed, and those involved in drug smuggling operations have received continued protection from state and federal authorities.
http://www.infowars.com/33-conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-true-what-every-person-should-know/
if i say "i listened to a mexican once
he was stupid and he was wrong
now i dont listen to mexicans"
its easy to see the flaw in this
when highly accomplished people, like for instance a Special Agent In Charge, and head of the Los Angeles FBI begin saying things that seem totally crazy , it is no less irresponsible to dismiss what he says because it seems crazy than it is to simply accept what he says because of who he is
whether people want to belive it or not, the world is very strange, and improbable and unlikely things happen all the time
and there is a sinister element to human interaction which defies the imagination - truth IS stranger than fiction and there are forces so prominent in the spheres of politics and economics that to pretend they do not have vested interest in influencing events for their long term benefit is absolutely naive - to then understand that they might want to keep their influence covert is logical because what benefits one is often at the expense of another
once an entity see that it does in reality have the resources to manipulate events which affect large numbers of people, why would anyone assume that it is not doing so?
imo, its as much true that there is an arrogance associated with the impulse to dismiss out of hand what we can regard as "conspiracy theories" as there is a flakey sort of impulsive silliness associated with accepting them without critical review
what greater evidence of ones own intellectual superiority than that one may expose the intellectual inferiority of another?
and being a bearer of "the REAL TRUTH" has quite an appeal - it makes us almost heroic even, and sometimes that what we bear is actually true is less important than that we get to be the ones to carry the message
i am an arrogant bastard myself, as well as a silly believer of wild notions, so i speak from experience
i think the wisest course of action is to review cases individually and without bias as much as possible
dont worry about the truth; pursue the facts, and maintain your intellectual independence
People are complicated.
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I don't want any single person on this planet to have to suffer, and knowing that it happens at the hands of manipulators who use entire nations like chess pieces is hard enough, but then you add misinformation campaigns into the mix and it becomes nearly impossible to tell fact from fiction. So instead I tend to focus on truth, and the truth is that there have always been places and times where sinister schemes were carried out by people with power, and there likely always will be. And if it ever seems like "they" are winning (again falling into us vs. them thinking) it's only a swing of the pendulum; it always swings back around. When people do "evil" things (so to speak), it is because they are ignorant of their own true nature, and there will always be ignorance.
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1. things are built as cheap as possible to do the expected job - to maximize profits
2. skyscrapers are not designed to withstand passenger jet aircraft flying into them
1+2=
yea, that makes sense. :lol:
You folk into this stuff have probably heard it all before, but this page is sufficient for me;
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/0112/eagar/eagar-0112.html
Where it basically says yes, the fire was not hot enough to fully melt the frame, but;
a. it was hot enough to weaken the steel frame
b. the frame distorted from uneven heating/weakening
c. the impact of the aircraft to the frame caused several part of the frame to fail
a+b+c=
Structural failure of the load bearing frame, basically the only thing holding the building up.
They go onto point out other stuff, like that 95% of the building is air, and that the footprint of the building itself is larger then the lateral load caused by the wind on that day or the impact of the aircraft.
So given no other lateral load, the design of the frame meant all that weight had to fall straight down. Initially it was not perfectly straight down, but quickly the structure below it was not strong enough to deflect the weight of what was falling down from above. The small initial lateral displacement was insufficient to the overall size of the building to pull it over, as the entire structure is tied together this stopped huge pieces sliding off for example. The WTC looks like it would have needed a huge lateral load to make it topple sideways. So the reason its never happened like this before is because no building this big has ever suffered this type of incident before.
I lost interest in engineering as a career when we I realized it was mostly material sciences, so that is about as far as my interest goes!!!
My experience of governments is they are too much of a rotating chair within political and military circles to manage huge plots and conspiracies, and just too lazy and inefficient in civilian circles to be able to pull anything off. It's why its important to not have leader cults, dictatorships, or restrictions on freedom of press or the media. If you really want to find truth in conspiracy have a look at nations with those things
:blink:
But hey why not if you enjoy it, stay vigilant

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CryojenX wrote: ... 9/11 traumatized me to a degree where I spent over a decade an absolute wreck of anxiety and fear of my own government. Even now that I have overcome the obsession of digging through information (and misinformation) trying desperately to learn a whole picture of "the truth", I still have bouts of anxiety. Meditation and focus on the grander scale of life over the millennia and eons before and after human existence have helped me to gain some perspective, and calm those inner obsessions.
There's more in your posts in this thread, Cryojenx, with which I agree than I have time to address in a post. To echo this sentiment, though, my experience of life after 9/11 has been much like yours. For the full week after that event, I was immensely sad, recognizing that something very fundamental to the life path of all humanity had changed -- and to this day, I too harbor suspicion of the government in which I once had a fairly high degree of trust.
I am experiencing similar feelings now about the quagmire in Syria. There have always been attacks and conflicts, but these events, to my eyes, are the sort of thing that would cause the movie-version Jedi to say "I sense a disturbance in the Force."
CryojenX wrote: ... And if it ever seems like "they" are winning (again falling into us vs. them thinking) it's only a swing of the pendulum; it always swings back around. When people do "evil" things (so to speak), it is because they are ignorant of their own true nature, and there will always be ignorance.
Oh so true! And one of the things that to my eyes renders an effective, unified conspiracy among "them" is that those whose objective is more wealth and more power, at their core, are more interested in accumulating it as "me" than as "us". It seems unlikely to me that an alliance of such people beyond a superficial level would be sustained, long term.
As you've said, this evil is, at its heart, ignorance of what we are at the depths of our souls. It is my fervent hope that each of us who needs it is granted a greater awareness of the Essence that shines within.
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There's many things one should be wary. False flags are a very popular and a very effective trick to use to get people to go to war. Some would say that most wars in history were false flags. And I thought I'd mention Star Wars, too since the entire Clone Wars was a false flag, an excuse to restrict everyone's freedoms, centralize everything and have more political power added to Palpatine. And the war on terror just never stops. It's like with the war on drugs or the war on poverty. Neither were effective and poverty and drug used has instead increased. And the war on terror goes on and on, because there's no way to define a winner. How could you? You're not fighting a specific state or country. So the war just goes on and on, and as we know war is very profitable for some corrupt people. That's why it hasn't ended because there is no way to end it unless we get out of the middle east. It's been going on for over a decade and it's not only not ended but gotten worse. Notice the patterns.
I just want people to be aware. There's lots of weird things happening and it looks like it's building up to something big which I hope never happens.
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