I think people are falling for it

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8 years 4 months ago - 8 years 4 months ago #210270 by
Replied by on topic I think people are falling for it

Omhu Cuspor wrote: I'm more or less aligned with those here who are skeptical of most conspiracy theories. For example, claims that the Freemasons are a sanctuary of evil with the intent to take over the world have existed for much of America's history - yet no such scheme has been implemented, and there's no credible evidence that it's happening now. Similarly, an imminent takeover by the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, and the Bilderbergers has been alleged since at least the 1960's, but we do not see them clearly at work in the most impactful events affecting our lives, even today.


Well the Rothschilds are easy to see why they come up in all the conspiracy stuff.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/50997.stm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/8302288/Rothschild-history-of-a-London-banking-dynasty.html

Basically they might be only ones able to finance and have the influence to coordinate such massive crazy conspiracy but who knows.

The Rockefellers definitely influenced American education in a very negative way, in my opinion - here's a lengthy history.

http://www.wakingtimes.com/2014/01/28/untold-history-modern-u-s-education-founding-fathers/

The Bilderberg group just sceams conspiracy no matter how you look at it...

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Bilderberg

There's also just so many quotes from the horses mouth from all the big geopolitical players that when you just look at what they say, what their groups write about, the ties between all the corporations owned by them, the agenda runs contrary to many people's values and ideas since it appears to be rampant with greed and lust for power. I think either way the earth is going to have a world government, I don't think these people should be the ones secretly creating it without the public's input which is exactly what they are doing. But I understand their reasoning because you just look at what goes on in the world most people are too rooted in their traditions and cultures in such a way that they war with each other over them regardless of outside influence. These guys use really dirty tricks too as Yabu mentioned media manipulation, subliminal messages, advanced technology, and also they create and foment crisis, conduct false flags operations, it's all real. It may not be real to the extent of one massive group controlling everything, and as far as some conspiracy guys take it - but the American hegemony wants their world order, Europe wants theirs, Russia wants theirs, China wants theirs, now the Islamic State wants theirs, but also the corporate and business conglomerates want theirs too it's very simple.
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8 years 4 months ago #210291 by
Replied by on topic I think people are falling for it
I'm just saying that people should keep an eye out because there are weird things going on. Notice how many times in the past governments have tried to cover up things when something happens, try to keep those who question the official story silent, ect. Whether it's with JFK or 9/11 though and think about how strange this is. There's holes there as the buildings fell in a neat stack even though a plane went through it, which couldn't happen because aside from the fact that no building in history has collapsed the way the twin towers did, but the explanations as to why it happened doesn't make sense. People keep bringing up the jet fuel thing which doesn't make sense because that doesn't get hot enough to melt that kind of steel. People forget how well built the twin towers were. And there wouldn't be enough of it because the plane exploded thus getting rid of all the jet fuel. If multiple planes crashed into it, it wouldn't cause it to fall the way it did. Pieces and chunks of it would fall down but it wouldn’t collapse in a neat stack like that. Anyone who has seen demolition knows that what buildings look like due to demolition stuff.

And that Bush himself quoted, in a video "Let us not tolerate any outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September 11th. Again, no one finds this strange? No one bats an eye to this of him wanting to violate free speech and silence those that question it, all the more while enacting unconstitutional bills like the Patriot Act, and later on bills like the NDAA though.

Bilderbergs are well known for being secretive which again should make you raise an eyebrow. There's a difference between being private and being secretive and groups like that are well known for trying to keep secrets of that Bush and John Kerry were members of a Secret Society called the Skull and Bones society which is another secret group. Again no one bats an eye to this? These people admit it on tv radio, newspapers ect but for some reason some people either ignore it or think it's fake for some reason

I can use an example and I know it's from Star Wars but it makes sense if you think about it. Remember Palpatine who was on the side of the Republic yet he secretly created the Seperatist crisis led by Dooku and both of them were in on it. He played both sides and manipulated the entire thing to get more power and as the crisis intensified he assumed more political power for himself on the side of the Republic which he eventually turned into an empire. Yes I know people will say "It's just a movie, but writers and directors make those things because they base the ideas on things that have happened in the past. The idea of false flags is not impossible and many tyrants have used that trick to assume more power.

If you want evidence, there's plenty of evidence that such things are happening but if one wants proof that's different. There's a difference between evidence and proof. I'm thinking there are just people who will refuse that any of this is happening because they don't want to believe such a thing is happening, that the idea that some governments in the world that are corrupt and that are basically using and betraying the people is too much for some people and too painful that they'd rather not think about the idea that they were being used and betrayed the entire time. Not everything's as it seems. Just because when something is happening and because it seems like it it's happening this way doesn't mean that it actually is. Like if on paper2 countries fight each other and on paper they are enemies, but secretly they are allies that are working against the people to assume more power and control for themselves. I just want people to keep an open mind and be aware.

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8 years 4 months ago #210332 by
Replied by on topic I think people are falling for it
It's really inevitable that there will be those who want to control others I suppose. The real takaway question from this for me though is: is there anything that we as individuals (or even as groups) can do about it? Even if there were, one major power player would simply be followed by another with similar aims. Unfortunately this has been the way of things since the dawn of civilization and won't change any time soon.

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8 years 4 months ago #210334 by
Replied by on topic I think people are falling for it

CryojenX wrote: It's really inevitable that there will be those who want to control others I suppose. The real takaway question from this for me though is: is there anything that we as individuals (or even as groups) can do about it? Even if there were, one major power player would simply be followed by another with similar aims. Unfortunately this has been the way of things since the dawn of civilization and won't change any time soon.


It is true that both good and evil will always exist. The thing is now, the side of evil is trying to gain a foothold where evil will be the main dominant power. Even in a golden age of good, evil will still exist, just in smaller quantities. However as far doing something, there's plenty one can do. We know one person can make a difference and it has been shown that in times of tyranny people would stand up against it. Many idea have been tried, like civil disobedience. Such as if a few tyrannical draconian laws were passed, the best way to go against it is not follow it. Obviously a tyrannical government can't hurt or imprison everyone. What they do is make an example out of a few to scare the others into submission. But they try to take over through sneaky motives. They realize that if they use force immediately, resistance will appear. That's why they would want to brainwash others into thinking they are free when they really aren't. That's the perfect slave, when a slave honestly believes they are free.

Standing up for yourself and displaying valor will ensure victory. Others will see and emulate such actions and goodness will be multiplied

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8 years 4 months ago #210335 by
Replied by on topic I think people are falling for it

Yabuturtle wrote: Standing up for yourself and displaying valor will ensure victory. Others will see and emulate such actions and goodness will be multiplied


I don't disagree.

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8 years 4 months ago - 8 years 4 months ago #210339 by OB1Shinobi
HOW COVERT AGENTS INFILTRATE THE INTERNET TO MANIPULATE, DECEIVE AND DESTROY REPUTATIONS
"Over the last several weeks, I worked with NBC News to publish a series of articles about “dirty trick” tactics used by GCHQ’s previously secret unit, JTRIG (Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group). These were based on four classified GCHQ documents presented to the NSA and the other three partners in the English-speaking “Five Eyes” alliance. Today, we at the Intercept are publishing another new JTRIG document, in full, entitled “The Art of Deception: Training for Online Covert Operations.

By publishing these stories one by one, our NBC reporting highlighted some of the key, discrete revelations: the monitoring of YouTube and Blogger, the targeting of Anonymous with the very same DDoS attacks they accuse “hacktivists” of using, the use of “honey traps” (luring people into compromising situations using sex) and destructive viruses. But, here, I want to focus and elaborate on the overarching point revealed by all of these documents: namely, that these agencies are attempting to control, infiltrate, manipulate, and warp online discourse, and in doing so, are compromising the integrity of the internet itself.”
https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oPluex8tds

and heres a few more
Warning: Spoiler!


if i say "i listened to a mexican once
he was stupid and he was wrong
now i dont listen to mexicans"
its easy to see the flaw in this

when highly accomplished people, like for instance a Special Agent In Charge, and head of the Los Angeles FBI begin saying things that seem totally crazy , it is no less irresponsible to dismiss what he says because it seems crazy than it is to simply accept what he says because of who he is

whether people want to belive it or not, the world is very strange, and improbable and unlikely things happen all the time

and there is a sinister element to human interaction which defies the imagination - truth IS stranger than fiction and there are forces so prominent in the spheres of politics and economics that to pretend they do not have vested interest in influencing events for their long term benefit is absolutely naive - to then understand that they might want to keep their influence covert is logical because what benefits one is often at the expense of another

once an entity see that it does in reality have the resources to manipulate events which affect large numbers of people, why would anyone assume that it is not doing so?


imo, its as much true that there is an arrogance associated with the impulse to dismiss out of hand what we can regard as "conspiracy theories" as there is a flakey sort of impulsive silliness associated with accepting them without critical review

what greater evidence of ones own intellectual superiority than that one may expose the intellectual inferiority of another?

and being a bearer of "the REAL TRUTH" has quite an appeal - it makes us almost heroic even, and sometimes that what we bear is actually true is less important than that we get to be the ones to carry the message

i am an arrogant bastard myself, as well as a silly believer of wild notions, so i speak from experience

i think the wisest course of action is to review cases individually and without bias as much as possible

dont worry about the truth; pursue the facts, and maintain your intellectual independence

People are complicated.
Last edit: 8 years 4 months ago by OB1Shinobi.

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8 years 4 months ago #210372 by
Replied by on topic I think people are falling for it
I don't dismiss conspiracy theorists outright, there's always a lot of shady stuff going on, in fact I've been attacked for being a 9/11 "truther" (how wanting to seek out the truth became a bad thing is beyond me), I just understand from my own experience that one needs to be careful how deep one peers into the rabbit-hole before one falls in. 9/11 traumatized me to a degree where I spent over a decade an absolute wreck of anxiety and fear of my own government. Even now that I have overcome the obsession of digging through information (and misinformation) trying desperately to learn a whole picture of "the truth", I still have bouts of anxiety. Meditation and focus on the grander scale of life over the millennia and eons before and after human existence have helped me to gain some perspective, and calm those inner obsessions.

I don't want any single person on this planet to have to suffer, and knowing that it happens at the hands of manipulators who use entire nations like chess pieces is hard enough, but then you add misinformation campaigns into the mix and it becomes nearly impossible to tell fact from fiction. So instead I tend to focus on truth, and the truth is that there have always been places and times where sinister schemes were carried out by people with power, and there likely always will be. And if it ever seems like "they" are winning (again falling into us vs. them thinking) it's only a swing of the pendulum; it always swings back around. When people do "evil" things (so to speak), it is because they are ignorant of their own true nature, and there will always be ignorance.

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8 years 4 months ago #210386 by Adder
Ms Adder was uncomfortable for months afterwards working in a tall building, but the main reason most people didn't question is was probably;
1. things are built as cheap as possible to do the expected job - to maximize profits
2. skyscrapers are not designed to withstand passenger jet aircraft flying into them
1+2=
yea, that makes sense. :lol:

You folk into this stuff have probably heard it all before, but this page is sufficient for me;
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/0112/eagar/eagar-0112.html

Where it basically says yes, the fire was not hot enough to fully melt the frame, but;
a. it was hot enough to weaken the steel frame
b. the frame distorted from uneven heating/weakening
c. the impact of the aircraft to the frame caused several part of the frame to fail
a+b+c=
Structural failure of the load bearing frame, basically the only thing holding the building up.

They go onto point out other stuff, like that 95% of the building is air, and that the footprint of the building itself is larger then the lateral load caused by the wind on that day or the impact of the aircraft.

So given no other lateral load, the design of the frame meant all that weight had to fall straight down. Initially it was not perfectly straight down, but quickly the structure below it was not strong enough to deflect the weight of what was falling down from above. The small initial lateral displacement was insufficient to the overall size of the building to pull it over, as the entire structure is tied together this stopped huge pieces sliding off for example. The WTC looks like it would have needed a huge lateral load to make it topple sideways. So the reason its never happened like this before is because no building this big has ever suffered this type of incident before.

I lost interest in engineering as a career when we I realized it was mostly material sciences, so that is about as far as my interest goes!!!

My experience of governments is they are too much of a rotating chair within political and military circles to manage huge plots and conspiracies, and just too lazy and inefficient in civilian circles to be able to pull anything off. It's why its important to not have leader cults, dictatorships, or restrictions on freedom of press or the media. If you really want to find truth in conspiracy have a look at nations with those things
:blink:
But hey why not if you enjoy it, stay vigilant ;)

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
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8 years 4 months ago #210407 by
Replied by on topic I think people are falling for it

CryojenX wrote: ... 9/11 traumatized me to a degree where I spent over a decade an absolute wreck of anxiety and fear of my own government. Even now that I have overcome the obsession of digging through information (and misinformation) trying desperately to learn a whole picture of "the truth", I still have bouts of anxiety. Meditation and focus on the grander scale of life over the millennia and eons before and after human existence have helped me to gain some perspective, and calm those inner obsessions.


There's more in your posts in this thread, Cryojenx, with which I agree than I have time to address in a post. To echo this sentiment, though, my experience of life after 9/11 has been much like yours. For the full week after that event, I was immensely sad, recognizing that something very fundamental to the life path of all humanity had changed -- and to this day, I too harbor suspicion of the government in which I once had a fairly high degree of trust.

I am experiencing similar feelings now about the quagmire in Syria. There have always been attacks and conflicts, but these events, to my eyes, are the sort of thing that would cause the movie-version Jedi to say "I sense a disturbance in the Force."

CryojenX wrote: ... And if it ever seems like "they" are winning (again falling into us vs. them thinking) it's only a swing of the pendulum; it always swings back around. When people do "evil" things (so to speak), it is because they are ignorant of their own true nature, and there will always be ignorance.


Oh so true! And one of the things that to my eyes renders an effective, unified conspiracy among "them" is that those whose objective is more wealth and more power, at their core, are more interested in accumulating it as "me" than as "us". It seems unlikely to me that an alliance of such people beyond a superficial level would be sustained, long term.

As you've said, this evil is, at its heart, ignorance of what we are at the depths of our souls. It is my fervent hope that each of us who needs it is granted a greater awareness of the Essence that shines within.

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8 years 4 months ago - 8 years 4 months ago #210413 by
Replied by on topic I think people are falling for it
I just never understood it because the fire or the jet fuel wouldn't cause the buildings to fall in a neat stack. And does anyone know any other buildings that were hit by planes and collapsed the same way? Because I can't think of a single building in the history of the world that fell like that due to a plane. And especially since the twin towers were very well built. And there are even some scientists and engineers that think that a building falling down like that due to a plane would defy the laws of physics.

There's many things one should be wary. False flags are a very popular and a very effective trick to use to get people to go to war. Some would say that most wars in history were false flags. And I thought I'd mention Star Wars, too since the entire Clone Wars was a false flag, an excuse to restrict everyone's freedoms, centralize everything and have more political power added to Palpatine. And the war on terror just never stops. It's like with the war on drugs or the war on poverty. Neither were effective and poverty and drug used has instead increased. And the war on terror goes on and on, because there's no way to define a winner. How could you? You're not fighting a specific state or country. So the war just goes on and on, and as we know war is very profitable for some corrupt people. That's why it hasn't ended because there is no way to end it unless we get out of the middle east. It's been going on for over a decade and it's not only not ended but gotten worse. Notice the patterns.

I just want people to be aware. There's lots of weird things happening and it looks like it's building up to something big which I hope never happens.
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